Unrealistic but "fair" trade proposals???

[bravescountry]

So the idea of trading Freeman, Teheran, and Incirate (and Markakis) have been unpopular but floating throughout the fans of the Atlanta Braves...

What are the best in depth of both teams and players of a trade involving the biggest trade chips we have left. I know I am in the minority with this opinion, but I think it wll be smart to shop Freddie Freeman and try getting the best return for him. Assuming Teheran has a bounce-back season during the first half of 2016, I would shop him during the trade deadline season because nearly every team is looking for SP, in which Teheran might be the best available. I would entertain the idea of trading Inciarte this winter because he has struggled against pitching outside of Chase Field and against LHP....he is still, however, an elite defender and teams like the Cubs or Royals may be interested. For Markakis, in my opinion, I would be looking to trade him for just the best package available. So, here comes my trade proposals. *users on other sites probably have seen them cuz I post them frequently on other threads*

1) Freeman+ ($20 million blockbusters for Pirates and Astros//pitching prospect for Red Sox):
Pirates: Austin Meadows + Josh Bell + Reese McGuire+ 2016 CBA pick
Red Sox: Anderson Espinoza + Rafael Devers/Andrew Benintendi + Michael Kopech/Travis Shaw
Astros: Kyle Tucker + AJ Reed + Francis Martes

2) Julio Teheran blockbusters:
Pirates: Austin Meadows + Reese McGuire
Rangers: Lewis Brinson + Yeyson Yrizarri
Dodgers: Jose DeLeon/Grant Holmes + Cody Bellinger
Red Sox: Andrew Benintendi + Sam Travis

3) Ender Inciarte trades:
Cubs: Jorge Soler + Jimenez
Royals: Ashe Russell +Bubba Starling + Jorge Bonifacio (they're a good fit for Inciaret, but need to get creative with a trade)

4) Markakis trade:
Orioles: Chance Cisco

What do you guys think or how would you guys tweak/change them? Am I undervauing or overvaluing? Just to note, I did ask other fans other than Braves fans and the team that "we are trading with." And Freeman trade is pretty unrealistic because first of all it's Freeman, but I can see a fit and need of both teams.
Thanks :)

[The Chosen One]

Welcome to the board fellow Braves fan.

[bravescountry]

Hello :)

[mqt]

I think that's a bit much for Teheran. I'd be excited about it if we got any of those packages, to say the least.

I am not a fan of any Royals deal for Inciarte. Starling and Ashe is probably the start of a fair deal, but I am really not a fan of Starling.

[bravescountry]

Same, if we could get those returns, I'd be ecstatic.
And the Pirates trade, a Pitts fans said if Teheran is pitching like 2013 and 2014 in the beginning of 2016, he, personally, would definitely offer Meadows + McGuire.

And same, the Royals-Inciarte trade is my least favorite, but eh.. had to put it lol.

[smootness]

I think that's a bit much for Teheran. I'd be excited about it if we got any of those packages, to say the least.

I am not a fan of any Royals deal for Inciarte. Starling and Ashe is probably the start of a fair deal, but I am really not a fan of Starling.

I actually don't like our returns in those Teheran deals.

[bravescountry]

YOU DON'T LIKE AUSTIN MEADOWS AND REESE MCGUIRE? WHATTTTT?

And not just Meadows, you don't like Brinson or Benintendi or DeLeon??
All four of them are top 30 prospects in baseball and either become our #3 or #4 prospect..
I doubt we can get anything more than those packages.
But on a side note, what are you expecting for Teheran then?

[auyushu]

I actually don't like our returns in those Teheran deals.

Yeah, outside of the Red Sox deal I don't like them either. People are completely underestimating how valuable Julio is now because of his long term deal since pitcher contracts skyrocketed this offseason so far. Unless we get blown away with a good deal for a nice bat we shouldn't be moving him.

[auyushu]

YOU DON'T LIKE AUSTIN MEADOWS AND REESE MCGUIRE? WHATTTTT?

And not just Meadows, you don't like Brinson or Benintendi or DeLeon??
All four of them are top 30 prospects in baseball and either become our #3 or #4 prospect..
I doubt we can get anything more than those packages.
But on a side note, what are you expecting for Teheran then?

I'm not a huge fan of Meadows myself, no. He's a decent prospect, but he's not the type of impact bat that blows my doors off. If we are moving Freddie or Julio we should be getting a guy with some sort of plus hit tool, be it power or a great walk rate and speed to go along with defense. Meadows' offensive skills are very average right now. Brinson has good pop and is interesting, but his hit tool and high strikeout rates (along with him having to repeat at levels to show success) make me think he'll be a bust. So not interested there either.

Deleon or Holmes really don't make sense as a headliner for Julio, basically the best case scenario for both of them is that they turn into what Julio is already. Small chance they are better I guess, but they both project more as #2 starters upside.

I'd do the Benintendi trade though, I like him alot. Great walk rate and solid pop.

You are vastly underrating Julio, if he pitches like he did in the second half last year going into this season he's going to have a ton of value thanks to his cheap contract.

I think your cubs trade for Inciarte sounds about right, and the Freeman trades are fair, but I'd only do the Astros one, we need to get a replacement power bat like Reed back if we are going to move Freddie.

[bravescountry]

Every single Freeman deal has a stud OF and 1B (or a player than CAN play 1B- Devers from Red Sox) player back..

And what you asked for-plus hit tool, some power, walk rates, and speed describe Meadows...
He has a 60 hit tool, 55 power (most scouts expect him to hit at least 15 homeruns), he walks at least once every 2 strikeouts (and he doesn't strike out much either)... and also has the speed to steal 20+ bags.
On a chat on BA, they expect him to hit .280, 15+ homeruns, 20+ steals.. and don't forget the solid arm and solid defense in the outfield. He honestly, is a 5-tool player.

and yeah, the Dodgers trade- I wouldn't recommend either because we don't need Holmes or DeLeon.... I just like Bellinger a little bit as a good power bat.

[blueagleace1]

Every single Freeman deal has a stud OF and 1B (or a player than CAN play 1B- Devers from Red Sox) player back..

And what you asked for-plus hit tool, some power, walk rates, and speed describe Meadows...
He has a 60 hit tool, 55 power (most scouts expect him to hit at least 15 homeruns), he walks at least once every 2 strikeouts (and he doesn't strike out much either)... and also has the speed to steal 20+ bags.
On a chat on BA, they expect him to hit .280, 15+ homeruns, 20+ steals.. and don't forget the solid arm and solid defense in the outfield. He honestly, is a 5-tool player.

Meadows arm is far from "solid".. Sorry he isn't a five tool player.

[Russ2dollas]

My dream is Olivera hits and we trade him to an American League team for a haul. Someone trynf to win now who would live a cheap bat and could hide him on d if needed. I don't think he'll hit or we will trade him but I don't see us moving Tehran or ff either.

[rico43]

I would be open to just about any deal that would get Benintendi. Live bat reminds me of Rendon coming out of college.

[auyushu]

Every single Freeman deal has a stud OF and 1B (or a player than CAN play 1B- Devers from Red Sox) player back..

And what you asked for-plus hit tool, some power, walk rates, and speed describe Meadows...
He has a 60 hit tool, 55 power (most scouts expect him to hit at least 15 homeruns), he walks at least once every 2 strikeouts (and he doesn't strike out much either)... and also has the speed to steal 20+ bags.
On a chat on BA, they expect him to hit .280, 15+ homeruns, 20+ steals.. and don't forget the solid arm and solid defense in the outfield. He honestly, is a 5-tool player.

No, he's projected to develop a 60 hit tool and 55 power tool. There is a pretty huge difference between projection and reaching it. As of yet he hasn't shown close to either. He's not even close to being a true 5 tool player. He's pretty much slightly above average at everything but power right now, and his power is average. He posted a .100 ISO in over 600 ABs last year, with only 8 HRs. He's not a power bat, and neither is Bell. If we are moving Freeman we have to get a person capable of hitting 25ish HRs back, otherwise you don't move him. And neither Bell nor Meadows have shown that ability, or even close to that.

And if you are playing Devers at 1B you are losing most of his value. I'd rather have Benintendi anyway.

[bravescountry]

Does Benintendi have power? Because according to what your saying, you wouldn't have Meadows or Bell because they have no power, but he has less or equal power tool and overall "package" of tools less than Meadows, Bell, and Devers...

So are you expecting a Teheran- Benintendi trade straight up? Or more value coming in? I can't see how much more we would get.
ANd also you said if Teheran pitches like he did in the 2nd half of 2015, he pitched a mid 3ERA after the All-Star break in which the only month he was actually good was September, so I would rather think he would have more value if he pitches like 2013 or 2014, in which then we could ask for a top 30-40 prospect.
And even if he does pitch a little worse, there's a large possibility we could still get a lot back due to the fact that not many pitchers will be available, or not very good players available. I doubt Carrasco/Salazar will be available because I see the Indians being better than "sucky," Strasburg MIGHT be avilable, and Ross MIGHT be available... Teheran could very well be the best pitcher available.

[Heyward]

Does Benintendi have power? Because according to what your saying, you wouldn't have Meadows or Bell because they have no power, but he has less or equal power tool and overall "package" of tools less than Meadows, Bell, and Devers...

So are you expecting a Teheran- Benintendi trade straight up? Or more value coming in? I can't see how much more we would get.
ANd also you said if Teheran pitches like he did in the 2nd half of 2015, he pitched a mid 3ERA after the All-Star break in which the only month he was actually good was September, so I would rather think he would have more value if he pitches like 2013 or 2014, in which then we could ask for a top 30-40 prospect.
And even if he does pitch a little worse, there's a large possibility we could still get a lot back due to the fact that not many pitchers will be available, or not very good players available. I doubt Carrasco/Salazar will be available because I see the Indians being better than "sucky," Strasburg MIGHT be avilable, and Ross MIGHT be available... Teheran could very well be the best pitcher available.

You know, we COULD just keep Julio, just spit-balling here.

We dont HAVE to trade him.

And given his contract, wouldnt deal him now, and given the crap at SP next winter. He'd hold a ton of value next winter if some of the other arms like Newcomb, Sims, Fried, Jenkins, etc show they're ready for the show.

[bravescountry]

If he pitches well in the first half, there's no reason to not trade him if you're planning on trading him in the winter after the 2016 season...
More control at the deadline and less pitching because you don't have to worry about the FA's (although the best FA could be the best SP on the market- Strasburg)


Another possible deal for the Pirates if it isn't enough is adding Harold Ramirez or Kingham. Both have good upside but are either injured or need some help refining tools.

[auyushu]

Does Benintendi have power? Because according to what your saying, you wouldn't have Meadows or Bell because they have no power, but he has less or equal power tool and overall "package" of tools less than Meadows, Bell, and Devers...

So are you expecting a Teheran- Benintendi trade straight up? Or more value coming in?

Umm, on what planet does Bell have an overall package of tools higher than Benintendi? The guy is a corner OF/1B at best while Benintendi is a CF who projects at worst as a solid RF defensively. And if you seriously think the three are comparable from a power standpoint you must just be completely ignoring stats altogether and only looking at scouting grades, which is IMO crazy. Scouting grades often wind up being completely wrong. They are a nice guideline, but eventually the proof is in the pudding (stats).

Benintendi hit 20 HRs with Arky his senior year and then hit 11 HRs with and ISO over .230 in just over 200 ABs at two levels of A ball (along with having a .313 avg and 35 walks to only 24 Ks). Guys who show a complete package of offensive skills like that and have more walks than strikeouts are extremely rare and generally have a high level of success translating to the majors.

Meadows and Bell aren't even close to the same level in terms of power. Meadows hit 7 HRs in 500 ABs last year at high A ball, with only a .100 ISO. That is below average power. Bell had an ISO around .130 last year and only had 7 HRs last year at the age of 23. Guys who are hitting 7 HR at 23 years old in AA/AAA generally don't start jacking 20+ HRs once they hit the majors. I like Bell, and his contact/walk rates are very nice, but he's not a power hitter. I'd be happy with him in RF, but he's not what we need at LF/1B since we lack power in the minors and majors outside of Riley and Freddie.

But anyway, I already said I'd do Benintendi for Julio in a heartbeat, straight up with no questions. But if we aren't getting a nice hitting prospect like Benintendi back there is zero reason to move him. As you mentioned if Julio returns to 2013/2014 form his value is going to be extremely high. A high level #2 starting pitcher/borderline #1 with Julio's contract would have crazy value. He's signed through 2020, we have zero need to trade him unless we getting a great deal. Even if Julio pitched exactly the same as he did last year he'd be signed to a well below value contract (see Leake's deal) so it's not like we wouldn't be able to move him anytime we wanted.

Freddie and Julio are guys that will be in their primes still when we are ready to compete in 2018, zero reason to move them unless we are blown away.

[bravescountry]

I get you're argument. But many scouts believe Meadows and Bell can hit at least 15 homeruns, but maybe you're expecting near 25 homeruns..

If Teheran pitches like 2013 and 2014.. I would actually ask for Benintendi+ honestly because its the trade deadline.

And great deal could consist of a deadline blockbuster of Teheran+Freeman to the Red Sox.. but I imagine we would have to take back Sandoval.
What's your thought on a unlikely but reasonable trade:

RedSox get: Teheran, Freeman, and Jenkins
Braves get: Sandoval+$25 million, Anderson Espinoza, Rafael Devers, Andrew Benintendi, Travis Shaw, and a prospect like Aybar or Basabe....

[auyushu]

I get you're argument. But many scouts believe Meadows and Bell can hit at least 15 homeruns, but maybe you're expecting near 25 homeruns..

Well yeah, not necessarily just HRs but having good power overall. Preferably with 20+ HR power. You are trying to say Meadows and Bell have good power and then say scouts project them to hit 15 HRs. That's not good power. 15-18 HRs per year would be a 50 grade for power, which is considered average. 12-15 HRs (which is more where Bell and Meadows project right now) is a 45 grade for power, which is considered slightly below average.

Bell has good gap power, so he'd probably project more in the 50ish range when you include his doubles. Meadows is still young and projectable, so he could definitely still move up the power range. The problem with that is that Meadows has a poor throwing arm and not amazing CF defense, so if he fills out a bit more he'll be stuck as a LF long term, and I don't think his bat plays well there at all.

When I speak of an impact bat for 1B, LF, or RF I'm looking for someone who can potentially post .850+ OPS regularly in their prime. Basically what we have with Freddie right now. I don't see Bell or Meadows as likely to do that.

If we are trading Julio and Freeman we should be able to get Benintendi, Devers, and Espinoza back without taking any salary back. Both are signed to below market contracts. No reason to take on Sandoval's worthless contract.

I'd rather explore AJ Reed and Tucker for Freddie if we are moving him. I prefer Reed to Devers.