Braves listening on Inciarte, Teheran, and Markakis for power bat; Freeman staying

[praeceps93]

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=14557912

Nothing especially new, but the recency of the news is pretty intriguing. Interesting to hear about interest in Markakis. Plus puts Freeman trade ideas to bed for the most part.

[bravesnumberone]

There are powerful bats named Justin Upton and Yoenis Cespedes they can get without having to give up Teheran.

[The Chosen One]

Braves need to be reminded once Nick finishes his new offseason workout lifting program that he'll be the power bat we need. The power bat we deserve.

[praeceps93]

Braves need to be reminded once Nick finishes his new offseason workout lifting program that he'll be the power bat we need. The power bat we deserve.

Hm...does this mean we can trade him for Matt Harvey?

[The Chosen One]

Hm...does this mean we can trade him for Matt Harvey?

You have only been on the forum a few days.

Last year, we had a beloved poster who pushed the limits on homerism we've never seen before. From the day Heyward was traded to acquiring Olivera, to the day he stopped posting his homerism never wavered.

When the criticism of Nick Markakis began for not hitting any homers came about last year, this particular poster came jumping to the defense of Nick. Noting that he had just been through neck surgery and had not been able to have a full offseason regimen. His reasoning was, discount Nick's 2015, because when 2016 comes he'll have had an entire offseason without rehabbing, to finally lift weights again and be strong enough to hit double digit homers again.

I think you can imagine the type of hazing he received on here for standing by those comments.

[praeceps93]

You have only been on the forum a few days.

Last year, we had a beloved poster who pushed the limits on homerism we've never seen before. From the day Heyward was traded to acquiring Olivera, to the day he stopped posting his homerism never wavered.

When the criticism of Nick Markakis began for not hitting any homers came about last year, this particular poster came jumping to the defense of Nick. Noting that he had just been through neck surgery and had not been able to have a full offseason regimen. His reasoning was, discount Nick's 2015, because when 2016 comes he'll have had an entire offseason without rehabbing, to finally lift weights again and be strong enough to hit double digit homers again.

I think you can imagine the type of hazing he received on here for standing by those comments.

Uh...I was making a Dark Knight reference. Ya know, hero we deserve and all that. Harvey's nickname. All that stuff

[zitothebrave]

There are powerful bats named Justin Upton and Yoenis Cespedes they can get without having to give up Teheran.

I think that was part of Markakis. Shop him off. Sign Justin or Cespedes for RF. Or LF with Olivera at 3B.

[UNCBlue012]

I wonder if they look to sign JUP or Ces and trade Ender/Julio to speed it up even more.

[Coach_Chris]

We wouldn't get more without giving more.

If only everyone were like the Diamondbacks . .

[zbhargrove]

Really have never been one to say "never", but those interested in Springer need to understand you might as well try to pry Trout away from the Angels.

Freddie "might" get him. Noah Syndergaard "might" get him. A package of Inciarte and Julio won't.

Springer's 2015 season was scrubbed by injury - he breaks out this year, and has as much upside as anyone out there (and the Astros' brass knows it) IMO.


That said, if FF, Teheran, and Inciarte nets you Springer, A. J. Reed, and Daz Cameron, I'd pull the trigger in a heartbeat.

There's as much upside but he hasn't put it all together yet. Comparing him to Trout is silly. Trout is a bonafide MVP year in and year out 3 years in a row.

[clvclv]

There's as much upside but he hasn't put it all together yet. Comparing him to Trout is silly. Trout is a bonafide MVP year in and year out 3 years in a row.

I didn't call him Trout - I said that if you think you're going to get Springer for Julio and Inciarte you believe you can get Trout. Simply not happening. The whispers that the Astros had kicked around the idea of dealing Springer away were only tied to getting a young, controllable, bonafide "Ace" in return - Syndergaard, Urias, deGrom, part of a package for Fernandez, etc.. Julio doesn't fit in that category.

[bravesfanMatt]

I didn't call him Trout - I said that if you think you're going to get Springer for Julio and Inciarte you believe you can get Trout. Simply not happening. The whispers that the Astros had kicked around the idea of dealing Springer away were only tied to getting a young, controllable, bonafide "Ace" in return - Syndergaard, Urias, deGrom, part of a package for Fernandez, etc.. Julio doesn't fit in that category.

Syndergaard/Urias/deGrom are not really aces.. You can make a case for deGrom.. But the other two are not Ace in any form at this point. Urias hasn't even pitched in the bigs yet...you could easily say Julio's first full year (2013) was just as good as Noah's only year... So when you are throwing around the word Bonafide.. make sure they are Bonafide..

[clvclv]

Syndergaard/Urias/deGrom are not really aces.. You can make a case for deGrom.. But the other two are not Ace in any form at this point. Urias hasn't even pitched in the bigs yet...you could easily say Julio's first full year (2013) was just as good as Noah's only year... So when you are throwing around the word Bonafide.. make sure they are Bonafide..

Is that you Shanks??? Take the Braves-colored glasses off.

[zbhargrove]

I didn't call him Trout - I said that if you think you're going to get Springer for Julio and Inciarte you believe you can get Trout. Simply not happening. The whispers that the Astros had kicked around the idea of dealing Springer away were only tied to getting a young, controllable, bonafide "Ace" in return - Syndergaard, Urias, deGrom, part of a package for Fernandez, etc.. Julio doesn't fit in that category.

So two of those pitchers... one has yet to throw an MLB pitch and one has just played his first partial year. Wow... those sure are some bonafide aces... Teheran most certainly has just as much potential at age 24/25. My how people forget that he was the #5 prospect in all of baseball... will he reach his ceiling of a bonafide ace?? Who knows? But it definitely is his ceiling as he has the raw stuff to make it there. He's not any further away from the pitchers you mentioned, save maybe deGrom.

[clvclv]

So two of those pitchers... one has yet to throw an MLB pitch and one has just played his first partial year. Wow... those sure are some bonafide aces... Teheran most certainly has just as much potential at age 24/25. My how people forget that he was the #5 prospect in all of baseball... will he reach his ceiling of a bonafide ace?? Who knows? But it definitely is his ceiling as he has the raw stuff to make it there. He's not any further away from the pitchers you mentioned, save maybe deGrom.

See above.

If you think Teheran belongs in that group, you really need to look closer.

[zbhargrove]

See above.

If you think Teheran belongs in that group, you really need to look closer.

Okay... I'll bite. He easily belongs in that group. You're delusional if you think he doesn't. Let's just look at their prospect qualities first of all. The highest ranking Syndergaard had was #11... Urias #10. That's solid, but Teheran was the #5 prospect in MLB at one point.

How can you say Teheran doesn't belong but Urias does... has Urias even pitched a single pitch at the MLB level? I'll save you the time... no, he hasn't. He's also never pitched more than 87 innings in a season. That alone, saying he's an ace over Teheran is so ridiculous I can't believe you're even trying to stick by it. Do you realize how silly that is??

Let's move onto Syndergaard... he's had one year... 150 IP, 3.24 ERA, 1.05 WHIP... VERY solid.

But Teheran has had two years that compare easily and one that was clearly better:

2013, Teheran had 185 IP, 3.20 ERA, 1.17 WHIP... so pitched more, had a slightly worse WHIP but in general it was about the same quality season.
2014, Teheran had 221 IP, 2.89 ERA, 1.08 WHIP... even with a slightly worse WHIP, it was clearly a better year than Syndergard's considering he did it over 221 innings.

Yes 2015 was a bit of a step back, but he really turned it on the second half and is still only 24. He's got more experience... has already pitched better than Syndergaard and was more highly regarded as a prospect. Just because Syndergaard has a 97 mph fastball and has more strikeouts per inning doesn't mean he's a better pitcher. The numbers clearly show that so far in their careers they are equal at best. I'd even argue that Teheran's ability to pitch is better considering he doesn't have the absurd velocity.

But you're right, by all means... please tell me how Syndergaard and Urias are more elite. I'll be waiting for specifics... not that I'm expecting you to address them.

So I looked closer, you didn't... and it's pretty clear. But please, keep the clever little quips up with little substance. "Urias is more of a bonafide ace than Teheran"... LMAO. At least Syndergaard is close. You're selling Teheran short because of your short memory and you're falling in love with the flavor of the month.

[Deester11]

Okay... I'll bite. He easily belongs in that group. You're delusional if you think he doesn't. Let's just look at their prospect qualities first of all. The highest ranking Syndergaard had was #11... Urias #10. That's solid, but Teheran was the #5 prospect in MLB at one point.

How can you say Teheran doesn't belong but Urias does... has Urias even pitched a single pitch at the MLB level? I'll save you the time... no, he hasn't. He's also never pitched more than 87 innings in a season. That alone, saying he's an ace over Teheran is so ridiculous I can't believe you're even trying to stick by it. Do you realize how silly that is??

Let's move onto Syndergaard... he's had one year... 150 IP, 3.24 ERA, 1.05 WHIP... VERY solid.

But Teheran has had two years that compare easily and one that was clearly better:

2013, Teheran had 185 IP, 3.20 ERA, 1.17 WHIP... so pitched more, had a slightly worse WHIP but in general it was about the same quality season.
2014, Teheran had 221 IP, 2.89 ERA, 1.08 WHIP... even with a slightly worse WHIP, it was clearly a better year than Syndergard's considering he did it over 221 innings.

Yes 2015 was a bit of a step back, but he really turned it on the second half and is still only 24. He's got more experience... has already pitched better than Syndergaard and was more highly regarded as a prospect. Just because Syndergaard has a 97 mph fastball and has more strikeouts per inning doesn't mean he's a better pitcher. The numbers clearly show that so far in their careers they are equal at best. I'd even argue that Teheran's ability to pitch is better considering he doesn't have the absurd velocity.

But you're right, by all means... please tell me how Syndergaard and Urias are more elite. I'll be waiting for specifics... not that I'm expecting you to address them.

So I looked closer, you didn't... and it's pretty clear. But please, keep the clever little quips up with little substance. "Urias is more of a bonafide ace than Teheran"... LMAO. At least Syndergaard is close. You're selling Teheran short because of your short memory and you're falling in love with the flavor of the month.

Agree so much with this research. Julio is a damn good pitcher. Anyone discounting that after a down year... No point in arguing.

[Enscheff]

The point is that his first half stumble gives the rest of the teams a justifiable reason to question just how much surplus value is truly there, driving his trade value down far enough that it makes no sense to trade him IF you believe he's going to rebound. There's no reason to entertain the idea of trading him at this point unless another team believes in him as much as the Braves (and fans) do.

I already conceded this point. If other teams do not value him as a guy with $50M-$80M of surplus value then don't trade him. It would be selling low on this particular asset.

A top 10 prospect is worth about $40M-$50M in surplus value. A top 25-50 guy is worth around $20M-$30M. Guys outside the top 50 bust so often they aren't worth hoarding nor making the centerpiece of a deal.

So if no team is willing to send a prospect package that somehow totals Julio's surplus value....no deal.

[auyushu]

So if no team is willing to send a prospect package that somehow totals Julio's surplus value....no deal.

Pretty much sums it up. No reason to trade him unless we are getting this sort of value. We are really in a no way to lose situation with his contract for the most part.

[clvclv]

Pretty much sums it up. No reason to trade him unless we are getting this sort of value. We are really in a no way to lose situation with his contract for the most part.

And as of the moment, there's no one out there willing to meet that asking price.

Break it down and grasp at whatever straws someone on this message board likes (not directed at you obviously anyushu or Enscheff) - at his BEST, there's no question that Julio COULD be worth two Top 50-75 prospects. The problem is that his "best" was 2 seasons ago. If and when he gets back to that level for an extended period of time, he'll net that kind of return.

January 16, 2016 - coming off a season where he went 11-8 with a 4.04 ERA, a 93 ERA+, and 13 of 33 starts where he lasted more than 6 innings simply isn't that time.

Serious question for those who believe someone's going to give you 2 Top 50 prospects for Julio RIGHT NOW - if you believe the narrative that the Braves fleeced Arizona in the Miller deal, make sure that you use it as a reference. The D-Backs gave up ONE Top 50 prospect, ONE Top 60-100 prospect, and an "extra" OF piece to get Miller (coming off a MUCH BETTER year). Similar deals for Julio would include:

Boston - Moncada, Benintendi, and Jackie Bradley

Cubs - Gleyber Torres, Underwood, and Soler or Baez

Rangers - Gallo, Lewis Brinson, and Luis Ortiz or Michael Matuella

Rockies - Brendan Rodgers, Jeff Hoffman, and Charlie Blackmon

Astros - Cameron or Kyle Tucker, A. J. Reed, and Jake Marisnick

The question is, would you make ANY of those deals if you were running those teams after watching Teheran pitch last year??? If you would, you wouldn't have a job for very long, even if the Braves "threw-in" Inciarte.