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Thread: Attendance and the re-build

  1. #1
    Mr. Free Trade
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    Attendance and the re-build

    I've been thinking about the idea of attendance and its effect on the decisions regarding the re-build and have found some interesting things:

    1. Attendance has been falling for several years. 2.4M in 2012, 2.55M in 2013, 2.35M in 2014, 2M in 2015.

    2. In 2015 the Braves at 2M were 24th in baseball. In 2014 they were 18th. But, the bottom 10 are all fairly close to one another and have been. In 2015, third worst attendance in baseball was Miami with 1.75M. Cleveland at 1.39M and Tampa at 1.25M were the real outliers.

    3. Obviously pure numbers don't tell the whole story as the value of the seats sold and other things such as concessions bought, parking paid for, etc have an effect on the total dollar value.

    4. Interleague and interdivision play has been a real savior for attendance for many franchises. I've often wondered how many Cubs fans or Yankee fans are in the park when they come to Atlanta. The answer appears to be a lot. In 2015 in April 10-12, the Mets came to town and the Braves had crowds of 46k, 36k and 28k. That was a weekend series that looks good (but remember no one had any idea the Mets would be good). But, the Braves backstopped that with a mid week series against Miami where they drew 13k, 15k and 18k then later that same month had the Nats in drawing 16k, 14k and 12k. I think it clear that timing has an effect on attendance. A nice weekend day in the spring is a great time to go see the Braves, no matter who is playing for them or who they are playing against. Mid week on a school night, not so much.

    When the Yankees came to town Aug 28-30, AFTER the Braves had essentially thrown in the towel, the Braves drew 33K, 35K and 49K. The Cubs came to town July 17-19, again pretty much as the Braves were sinking to the bottom, and drew 31K, 42K and 45K.

    5. So, if you get a visit from teams who travel well and have fans everywhere like the Yankees, Red Sox or Cubs then you have hit the schedule gold mine since you have a good chance of filling your stadium no matter what. Unfortunately, the opposite holds true if you are unlucky enough to have a bad opponent draw. Like the Braves have for 2016. In 2016 the Braves oppose the AL Central for interleague opponents and they get the teams that aren't likely to travel well like Cleveland, Minnesota and Detroit. That tells me that attendance was going to be down no matter what in 2016, but it will all be blamed on the rebuild. (The Braves do get Boston for 2 games and the Cubs for 3.)

    6. No matter what, it is unlikely that the Braves drop from 2M to below 1.2M in one year in attendance. If they had the Yankees and Red Sox and Cubs at home for weekend series, they could probably run a team of blind midgets out there and still draw 2M fans. But, since they don't have those teams coming then they will probably be in the 1.5M range.

    7. If you take 2.5M as the upper limit and 1.5M as a lower limit, then you can fairly easily gain an idea about the impact of attendance for the Braves. Lets say the average ticket price for those seats not being filled is $20 then that's a loss of $20M in revenue, if the value is $30 then $30M, etc. But, the Braves were at 2M last year and could fall as low as 1.5M this year, so you half the revenue lost from the example above. 2017 is a reset anyway because you are moving into a new park and would get a novelty bump even if you ran the blind midgets back out there.

    All this tells me that concerns over attendance are trivial regarding the rebuild and its effect on 2016. Concerns over attendance for 2017 and beyond hinge directly on the effectiveness of the rebuild.

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    Expects Yuge Games nsacpi's Avatar
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    Revenue loss goes beyond ticket revenues.

    There is an outfit that tracks the costs of attending a major league baseball game at each park. The Braves are low on ticket prices but high on concessions. Some numbers:

    The average price of a brew at a Braves game is $7.25 (MLB average $5.98), the average price of a soft drink is $4.75 (MLB average $4.07), the average parking price is $15 (MLB average $15.89) and the average hot dog price is $4.75 (MLB average $4.39).

    My guess is the average person attending spends more on concessions than on tickets.

    Also looking at the attendance numbers, I would say we were fairly stable in the 2.35-2.55 range in 2012-2014 and dropped to 2.0 last year and likely to something around 1.5M in 2016. I would guess a 1M drop in attendance affects the bottom line by about 40M. Whether that is "trivial" or not is in the eye of the beholder.
    Last edited by nsacpi; 01-17-2016 at 01:08 PM.

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    NL Rookie of the Year dak's Avatar
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    The Bloomberg data linked below is from 2013, but gives an idea of where the Braves (and other teams) get their revenue. At that time, only about a third of revenue came from gate receipts + concessions + parking. The other two thirds came from media rights and sponsorship. I would speculate that media rights + sponsorship makes up an even bigger piece of the pie now.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/infographic...am-values.html

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    Expects Yuge Games nsacpi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dak View Post
    The Bloomberg data linked below is from 2013, but gives an idea of where the Braves (and other teams) get their revenue. At that time, only about a third of revenue came from gate receipts + concessions + parking. The other two thirds came from media rights and sponsorship. I would speculate that media rights + sponsorship makes up an even bigger piece of the pie now.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/infographic...am-values.html
    I suspect the sponsorship revenues are somewhat sensitive to attendance. So are things like merchandise sales. I bet the number of Braves fans buying the MLB package has also been affected by the team's performance, although that probably goes into the overall MLB pot.

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    Mr. Free Trade
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    Quote Originally Posted by dak View Post
    The Bloomberg data linked below is from 2013, but gives an idea of where the Braves (and other teams) get their revenue. At that time, only about a third of revenue came from gate receipts + concessions + parking. The other two thirds came from media rights and sponsorship. I would speculate that media rights + sponsorship makes up an even bigger piece of the pie now.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/infographic...am-values.html
    Good find. Using the dollar figures for 2013 if you include sponsorships then the dollar value per person per game is about $38. If you exclude sponsorships it is about $29. That is assuming that the figures that are provided are for regular season only and do not include any revenues gained from the postseason (I can't tell from reading the article). So, IF the complete gutting of the team to rebuild leads attendance to drop from 2M to 1.5M, the loss in attendance will in effect cost the Braves between $15-$19M. Considering that the Braves could cover that by simply trading Freeman and reducing payroll (which they won't do), I don't see attendance as a main concern (it is a concern but not overriding) in determining the best approach to the rebuild.

    Also, I think the Braves have been able to renegotiate their local media revenues since 2013 which helps.

    I think the idea of worrying about attendance for 2016 in regards to moves made is short sighted given the relatively small impact that losing even 25% of your attendance brings to overall revenues. Are millions of dollars trivial? It depends on the perspective I think. If you are committed to an approach of short term pain for long term gain then I think you can make the argument.

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    Arbitration Eligible NYCBrave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nsacpi View Post
    Revenue loss goes beyond ticket revenues.

    There is an outfit that tracks the costs of attending a major league baseball game at each park. The Braves are low on ticket prices but high on concessions. Some numbers:

    The average price of a brew at a Braves game is $7.25 (MLB average $5.98), the average price of a soft drink is $4.75 (MLB average $4.07), the average parking price is $15 (MLB average $15.89) and the average hot dog price is $4.75 (MLB average $4.39).

    My guess is the average person attending spends more on concessions than on tickets.

    Also looking at the attendance numbers, I would say we were fairly stable in the 2.35-2.55 range in 2012-2014 and dropped to 2.0 last year and likely to something around 1.5M in 2016. I would guess a 1M drop in attendance affects the bottom line by about 40M. Whether that is "trivial" or not is in the eye of the beholder.
    Wow, is the MLB average really 5.98 for a beer? That doesn't seem right. Beers at NYY and NYM stadiums are like 8-9 bucks. To have 6 bucks be the average, that would have to be mean some stadiums are well below 6. Where is that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by NYCBrave View Post
    Wow, is the MLB average really 5.98 for a beer? That doesn't seem right. Beers at NYY and NYM stadiums are like 8-9 bucks. To have 6 bucks be the average, that would have to be mean some stadiums are well below 6. Where is that?
    Not Seattle.

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    13 clubs sell a beer for $5 or less with AZ dbacks the lowest at $4 for a 14 oz beer

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    Mr. Free Trade
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    Quote Originally Posted by depley View Post
    13 clubs sell a beer for $5 or less with AZ dbacks the lowest at $4 for a 14 oz beer
    The cost of the beer should be proportional with the quality of the baseball.

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