International News, Rumor and Signing Thread

[bravescountry]

http://www.scout.com/mlb/braves/stor...llis-interview

I believe it was in part III

I'll take a look.. I'm looking for the podcast I saw right now.

[chop2chip]

Well, IDK about all of them- but some comps are actually really good. But its only the ones where they use tool analysis of pitches, pitch movement, swing styles, and stuff like that to compare players.

That's fair. I 100% agree on the bolded part. I don't think all comps are invalid. Just most of them :)

[bravescountry]

Link? I listened to Callis' inteview with Bill from two days ago and he said the exact opposite.

Found it. Both agreed that Maitan was better.
http://mlb.mlb.com/fan_forum/podcast...t=mlb_pipeline
Podcast from 5/5/16 and time 4:45 ish..
They said, "It's hard to compare, but.. I don't see that potential bat...nobody int he draft that combines Maitan's offensive potential." They said that when he compared to infielders..
and they said in another podcast which I'm too lazy to look for right now that they'd take him #1.

[bravescountry]

That's fair. I 100% agree on the bolded part. I don't think all comps are invalid. Just most of them :)

Yep, i agree with you.

[bravos4evr]

OFC you don't see his type of talent much.. I like Maitan and I can't wait till we sign him. I just think Pedroia is a bad comp (which you made) for Moniak.. very bad comp.

that was my comp for his ceiling, I don't think it's a bad one at all, it's doubtful he becomes a power hitting guy, and his high school game looks more like a #2 hitter prototype. I picked what I thought was a damn good #2 type of hitter in Pedroia.

[bravescountry]

that was my comp for his ceiling, I don't think it's a bad one at all, it's doubtful he becomes a power hitting guy, and his high school game looks more like a #2 hitter prototype. I picked what I thought was a damn good #2 type of hitter in Pedroia.

Yes, but comps are for players of his position.. Unless you see him moving to 2B, most will say that's not a good comp. ANd also- bc Pedroia is a RHH..

[bravos4evr]

Yes, but comps are for players of his position.. Unless you see him moving to 2B, most will say that's not a good comp. ANd also- bc Pedroia is a RHH..

but i said the type of hitter he will be,which I think is in the Pedroia type #2 guy. I never said anything about his defense or positioning and I can comp any bloody way i see fit, I think too many of you think the methd of the "scouts" you like is the only way to judge players. hint: it isn't

[bravescountry]

but i said the type of hitter he will be,which I think is in the Pedroia type #2 guy. I never said anything about his defense or positioning and I can comp any bloody way i see fit, I think too many of you think the methd of the "scouts" you like is the only way to judge players. hint: it isn't

#2 type of guy.. that's a very broad comp and not very good. What is a Pedroia type of #2 player? One that bats .300, with 15 homeruns a season, and blah blah? Great, that isn't a comparison...

[bravescountry]

Also, chop2chip.. I'm listening to the interview, but I'm really not seeing where Callis is saying that "Moniak is better than Maitan" or "Maitan wouldn't be the top prospect.."

[chop2chip]

Also, chop2chip.. I'm listening to the interview, but I'm really not seeing where Callis is saying that "Moniak is better than Maitan" or "Maitan wouldn't be the top prospect.."

My bad. I must have blended what Badler and KLaw said with Callis.

[bravos4evr]

#2 type of guy.. that's a very broad comp and not very good. What is a Pedroia type of #2 player? One that bats .300, with 15 homeruns a season, and blah blah? Great, that isn't a comparison...

what is a pedroia type player? 50 extra base hits a year, high avg, high OBP, mid range ISO, good speed. I think Moniak's ceiling is to have Pedroia's career with the bat.

what do you think it is?

[chop2chip]

Found it. Both agreed that Maitan was better.
http://mlb.mlb.com/fan_forum/podcast...t=mlb_pipeline
Podcast from 5/5/16 and time 4:45 ish..
They said, "It's hard to compare, but.. I don't see that potential bat...nobody int he draft that combines Maitan's offensive potential." They said that when he compared to infielders..
and they said in another podcast which I'm too lazy to look for right now that they'd take him #1.

Thanks for the link. That was a good listen.

[thewupk]

Found it. Both agreed that Maitan was better.
http://mlb.mlb.com/fan_forum/podcast...t=mlb_pipeline
Podcast from 5/5/16 and time 4:45 ish..
They said, "It's hard to compare, but.. I don't see that potential bat...nobody int he draft that combines Maitan's offensive potential." They said that when he compared to infielders..
and they said in another podcast which I'm too lazy to look for right now that they'd take him #1.

I know it has nothing to do with this situation. But that just reminds me of when Marte was like 20 and thought of as the next Mike Schmidt and people stated he would easily go #1 at that years draft if he was coming out of college.

I know some people look at his possible ceiling and say 'Yes I want him and would easily draft him #1 if given the chance'. But the bust rate for Matian is SO much higher than someone like Senzel that I could certainly see someone opting for a 'safer' route. And that's not to take anything away from either player. But even the age difference from 16 to 18 when US players get drafted is huge. And it's much easier to get a gauge of a players abilities in the states than it is overseas.

Again that's not to say that Matian isn't an incredible talent and who wouldn't want him. He's the obvious #1 guy in this years talent pool. But for every Felix Herandez who is pimped as the **** in a given year there are several Wilson Betemits. And that 2 year age gap from when these kids are signed to when US players are drafted is a huge time frame to get a better grasp of a players abilities.

[zbhargrove]

I know it has nothing to do with this situation. But that just reminds me of when Marte was like 20 and thought of as the next Mike Schmidt and people stated he would easily go #1 at that years draft if he was coming out of college.

I know some people look at his possible ceiling and say 'Yes I want him and would easily draft him #1 if given the chance'. But the bust rate for Matian is SO much higher than someone like Senzel that I could certainly see someone opting for a 'safer' route. And that's not to take anything away from either player. But even the age difference from 16 to 18 when US players get drafted is huge. And it's much easier to get a gauge of a players abilities in the states than it is overseas.

Again that's not to say that Matian isn't an incredible talent and who wouldn't want him. He's the obvious #1 guy in this years talent pool. But for every Felix Herandez who is pimped as the **** in a given year there are several Wilson Betemits. And that 2 year age gap from when these kids are signed to when US players are drafted is a huge time frame to get a better grasp of a players abilities.

Marte and Maitan not even near the same league of prospect

[thewupk]

Marte and Maitan not even near the same league of prospect

Good thing I never said they were. With that being said I hope Maitan is the real deal and can at least reach Martes highest prospect ranking (not that it guarantees anything)

[bravescountry]

My bad. I must have blended what Badler and KLaw said with Callis.

Ah okay, that's fine.

[bravescountry]

what is a pedroia type player? 50 extra base hits a year, high avg, high OBP, mid range ISO, good speed. I think Moniak's ceiling is to have Pedroia's career with the bat.

what do you think it is?

But that's still not a good player comp. Player comp is who a person can follow through as a player and become the next ___ of. Moniak won't become the next Pedroia.

[Southcack77]

Is there any precedent for this? No chance he'll play DSL/GCL this year, so would it really be smart to push a 17-year-old international guy all the way to Rome at some point next year? I could definitely be wrong, just not sure how aggressive other teams have been with elite international guys like that.

Seems like the main comparison for hype was Sano. He signed in 2009, played DSL/GCL in 2010 and then only played rookie ball in 2011. He didn't see full season ball until 2012.

Miguel Cabrera split his 17 year old season between rookie ball and low A ball.

[Southcack77]

BaseballAmerica chat with some Maitan tidbits

Tom (Atlanta): Kevin Maitan or Mickey Moniak?
Ben Badler: Moniak

Stu (Nashville): Moniak over Maitan? Surprised by that. I guess you're not buying the Miguel Cabrera/Chipper Jones comps for Maitan...
Ben Badler: I’m a huge fan of Maitan, but Moniak is a better pure hitter right now, he’s been tested against better competition, has a higher probability to stay at a premium position and plays it well. Maitan has more power potential and could leapfrog him within the next couple of years.

Makes sense that guys are hesitant to put a 16 year old phenom over the 1:1 draft pick; but the fact that its a conversation speaks to the type of upside scouts think Maitan has.



http://www.baseballamerica.com/minor...Fu6DTM5mY4T.97

The whole business about premium defensive positions is where I start to lose the prospect raters. I 100% agree that you need to have good defenders who can also hit at premium defensive positions. But I think a guy with the upside of Miguel Cabrera playing LF is a lot more valuable than a guy with Micky Moniak' upside.

Maybe I got it wrong. Or maybe the analyst doesn't see it that way.

[Southcack77]

Value at the time of the trade made this a bad trade. That said, at the time of the trade, I thought HO was going to be a better person.. Paco would be ready this year.. Bird was a throw in... and I really, really like the draft pick up. I did not think we gave away the farm to get this trade done.. I didn't like HO's age and history.. but still gave the trade the benefit of the doubt. As time passed, it was clear we blew this trade.. (HO stunk, Bird struggling, Paco down).. But as more time passed, the trade started looking better.. Wood inconsistent and now hurt, Jose not very good, JJ is back, Avilan we all knew was horrible.. plus, Paco will be back.. Bird is starting to get more velocity on his FB and showing better results.. and the Draft was huge for us...

I don't really think that Wood and Peraza were all that valuable in the market. In hindsight given what Oliveira has done you'd prefer it had been some other piece that came back instead of him, but the trade was always for Oliveira and other assets. The draft pick isn't just Wentz, it was the extra bonus pool money that let them configure the draft class the way they did.

Also, remember it was the Dodgers who overpaid for Oliveira. Atlanta just got a guy on a fairly reasonable salary for what they hoped he might be. I wouldn't call it a bad trade for Atlanta in retrospect. It's been fairly neutral. Certainly the Dodgers got almost nothing out of it so far except what value they got out of flipping Peraza.

Chalk it up to Braves moves some middling assets for a flyer on Oliveira, a couple of prospects, and draft flexibility. I think that is all it really was. I don't know that we can assume there were other big offers on the table.

I hate some Braves trades, though fewer than a lot of people do, but this one is just sort of meh. But then I never thought that much of Wood or Peraza.