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  1. #14781
    NL Rookie of the Year Acuña’s Bat Flip's Avatar
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    FKA Ozzie's Chainz

    Quote Originally Posted by thethe View Post
    Got to take the L sometimes.

    I've been used to it over the years.
    Braves / Panthers / Lakers / Hornets / Clemson / Duke Basketball

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    Anthony Davis and Ben Simmons would make a good lesbian couple.
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    'nuff said.

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    Connoisseur of Minors zitothebrave's Avatar
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    LeBron carrying the Lakers to the conference finals at 38.

    ****ing legend.
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    LeBron gonna get swept by the Nuggies? I certainly hope so.

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    Runnin (05-23-2023)

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    Jokic is incredible. It would not surprise me if he goes down as a top 10 player of all time

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    Carp (05-19-2023), Runnin (05-23-2023)

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    Connoisseur of Minors zitothebrave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chop2chip View Post
    Jokic is incredible. It would not surprise me if he goes down as a top 10 player of all time
    He's off to an amazing start.

    But I don't know about top 10 of all time. Compare him to the GOAT center.

    Kareem through his first 8 seasons averaged 29.5 PPG, 15.3 TRB, 4.3 AST, 3.4 BLK

    Jokic is currently at 20.2 PPG, 10.5 RPG, 6.6 APG, 0.7 BLK per game.

    Kareem was also by that point a 5 time MVP, Won a finals in Milwaukee, etc.

    Look at Shaq too. 27.5 PPG, 12.4 RPG 2.7 APG, 2.7 BLK Shaq did not win an MVP and took til year 8 to win his final.

    Shaq is a better comp and I don't think anyone considers shaq a top 10 player of all time. He's also pretty comparable to Dwight Howard (though he's for sure better than Dwight)

    Keep in mind the following guys are his most similar players according to B-Ref (based off Win Shares)

    Shaq (90.7)
    Walt Bellamy (90.4)
    Dwight Howard (89.9)
    Ed McCauley (89.1)
    Dan Issel (89.0)

    Keep in mind to even be a top 10 Center of all time he's competing with Kareem, WIlt, Russell, Shaq, Hakeem, Moses Malone, Robinson, Ewing, MiKan and McAdoo (bottom is dicey in debate) just winding up top 10 in there makes you a great player. But odds are he won't make top 10 players of all time. He's got to compete with the likes of Kareem, MJ, Lebron, Wilt. Karl Malone, Stockton, Duncan, Dirk, Paul, Garnett, Oscar RObinson, etc. If he sneaks up there great. But it takes a hell of a lot of longevity and high level play to get there. Shaq was a 20+ Point Per game player until he was 34 and most wouldn't consider him top 10.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zitothebrave View Post
    He's off to an amazing start.

    But I don't know about top 10 of all time. Compare him to the GOAT center.

    Kareem through his first 8 seasons averaged 29.5 PPG, 15.3 TRB, 4.3 AST, 3.4 BLK

    Jokic is currently at 20.2 PPG, 10.5 RPG, 6.6 APG, 0.7 BLK per game.

    Kareem was also by that point a 5 time MVP, Won a finals in Milwaukee, etc.

    Look at Shaq too. 27.5 PPG, 12.4 RPG 2.7 APG, 2.7 BLK Shaq did not win an MVP and took til year 8 to win his final.

    Shaq is a better comp and I don't think anyone considers shaq a top 10 player of all time. He's also pretty comparable to Dwight Howard (though he's for sure better than Dwight)

    Keep in mind the following guys are his most similar players according to B-Ref (based off Win Shares)

    Shaq (90.7)
    Walt Bellamy (90.4)
    Dwight Howard (89.9)
    Ed McCauley (89.1)
    Dan Issel (89.0)

    Keep in mind to even be a top 10 Center of all time he's competing with Kareem, WIlt, Russell, Shaq, Hakeem, Moses Malone, Robinson, Ewing, MiKan and McAdoo (bottom is dicey in debate) just winding up top 10 in there makes you a great player. But odds are he won't make top 10 players of all time. He's got to compete with the likes of Kareem, MJ, Lebron, Wilt. Karl Malone, Stockton, Duncan, Dirk, Paul, Garnett, Oscar RObinson, etc. If he sneaks up there great. But it takes a hell of a lot of longevity and high level play to get there. Shaq was a 20+ Point Per game player until he was 34 and most wouldn't consider him top 10.
    I don't know of anyone who doesn't consider Shaq a top 10 player of all time. Literally the most dominant player ever. Absolutely unguardable.

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    LeFlop swept. Gotta love it.

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    Connoisseur of Minors zitothebrave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carp View Post
    LeFlop swept. Gotta love it.
    basically a 30/10/10 in the finals But it's his fault they lost.
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    Connoisseur of Minors zitothebrave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carp View Post
    I don't know of anyone who doesn't consider Shaq a top 10 player of all time. Literally the most dominant player ever. Absolutely unguardable.
    Shaq is considered top 10 by people who're really into "intangibles"


    People I def take over Shaq

    LeBron
    MJ
    Duncan
    Wilt
    Kareem
    Chris Paul

    Guys probably slightly better
    Magic
    Stockton
    Malone
    Duncan
    Dirk

    Debateables and guys who're playing now who could easily pass him
    David Robertson
    Oscar RObertson
    Bill Russell (honestly if Russell had a longer career he'd be much higher)
    Garnett
    Harden
    Durant
    Steph
    Bird
    Dr. J
    Barkley

    Other guys who fools could put over him
    Kobe
    Hakeem
    West
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    Quote Originally Posted by zitothebrave View Post
    Shaq is considered top 10 by people who're really into "intangibles"


    People I def take over Shaq

    LeBron
    MJ
    Duncan
    Wilt
    Kareem
    Chris Paul

    Guys probably slightly better
    Magic
    Stockton
    Malone
    Duncan
    Dirk

    Debateables and guys who're playing now who could easily pass him
    David Robertson
    Oscar RObertson
    Bill Russell (honestly if Russell had a longer career he'd be much higher)
    Garnett
    Harden
    Durant
    Steph
    Bird
    Dr. J
    Barkley

    Other guys who fools could put over him
    Kobe
    Hakeem
    West
    Shaq is considered top 10 by nearly everyone. I mean seriously just google Top 10 NBA players ever and he's on virtually every single list. LOL on Harden/Paul.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zitothebrave View Post
    basically a 30/10/10 in the finals But it's his fault they lost.
    Not saying it was his fault they lost.

    However, he was a no show in the 2nd half virtually every game. AD was their best player this series.

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    Connoisseur of Minors zitothebrave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carp View Post
    Not saying it was his fault they lost.

    However, he was a no show in the 2nd half virtually every game. AD was their best player this series.
    AD is 29, LeBron is 38.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zitothebrave View Post
    AD is 29, LeBron is 38.
    OK. Not sure what that has to do with what I said.

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    Connoisseur of Minors zitothebrave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carp View Post
    Shaq is considered top 10 by nearly everyone. I mean seriously just google Top 10 NBA players ever and he's on virtually every single list. LOL on Harden/Paul.
    Ok?

    If you don't think Chris Paul is one of the best players of all time you're a fool.

    Harden has been on an inner circle hall of fame career.

    Consider these players

    17.9 PPG 9.5 APG 4.5 RPG

    13.1 PPG 10.5 APG 2.7 RPG

    One of them you laughed at one you didn't.

    Harden's career slash is 24.7/7.0/5.6
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    Connoisseur of Minors zitothebrave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carp View Post
    OK. Not sure what that has to do with what I said.
    You would think if AD was any amount of good he would outperform someone who's 38.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zitothebrave View Post
    Shaq is considered top 10 by people who're really into "intangibles"


    People I def take over Shaq

    LeBron
    MJ
    Duncan
    Wilt
    Kareem
    Chris Paul

    Guys probably slightly better
    Magic
    Stockton
    Malone
    Duncan
    Dirk

    Debateables and guys who're playing now who could easily pass him
    David Robertson
    Oscar RObertson
    Bill Russell (honestly if Russell had a longer career he'd be much higher)
    Garnett
    Harden
    Durant
    Steph
    Bird
    Dr. J
    Barkley

    Other guys who fools could put over him
    Kobe
    Hakeem
    West
    This is an absolutely wild take.

    Chris Paul top 6 player ever?

    Dirk, Malone and Stockton over Shaq?

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    I think Jokic could be top 10 center of all time. He's got crazy skills for a center - soft hands, passing, rebounding, defense and can lead the fast break. I love his game. He seems even better in this era with fewer true centers. The game has changed and stats reflect best against the era a person plays. Shaq was super dominant but I didn't like watching him. He just bulled over people, but he had amazing skills too and played hard.

    Lebron will go down as possible GOAT but I hate watching him too. His game is ugly to me because he insists on playing point forward and always having the ball. He's not a good ball handler and he shouldn't shoot so many 3s. He's a good passer but he renders actual guards on his team meaningless and without a regular guard role on offense. Seems selfish to me. I prefer Karl Malone and even Barkley over Lebron. They aren't afraid to play with their back to the basket.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chop2chip View Post
    This is an absolutely wild take.

    Chris Paul top 6 player ever?

    Dirk, Malone and Stockton over Shaq?
    For real. Wild take is putting it lightly.

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