NBA Thread

[zitothebrave]

The top 40:

1) Michael Jordan
2) LeBron James
3) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
4) Bill Russell
5) Magic Johnson
6) Wilt Chamberlain
7) Larry Bird
8) Tim Duncan
9) Kobe Bryant
10) Shaquille O'Neal
11) Oscar Robertson
12) Hakeem Olajuwon
13) Stephen Curry
14) Kevin Durant
15) Julius Irving
16) Jerry West
17) Karl Malone
18) Moses Malone
19) Dirk Notwizki
20) Kevin Garnett
21) Scottie Pippen
22) Elgin Baylor
23) Charles Barkley
24) David Robinson
25) Kawhi Leonard
26) Dwayne Wade
27) Giannis Antetokounmpo
28) John Stockton
29) Allen Iverson
30) Steve Nash
31) Isiah Thomas
32) James Harden
33) John Havlicek
34) George Mikan
35) Jason Kidd
36) Kevin McHale
37) Patrick Ewing
38) Bob Pettit
39) Walt Frazier
40) Chris Paul

Sorry to bring back an old post. But I do admit I find this list amusing looking back.

Stockton is too low. And I think he and Malone are a package deal. No way Malone is as good without Stockton and Stockton needed a quality big man to be his partner.

Personally I'd bump Malone down to 21 and Stockton up to 20

Also Chris Paul should be higher.

Kobe Bryant is the most overrated player in NBA history. He should be down further but everyone values scoring totals so much and big performances, they ignore the people who do it over and over again. I'll list 2 players and their career stats in average and totals.

Player A 47.1% from the field, 18.2 PPG 3 RB 3 Ast 1.1 Stl, totals 25279 Points 4182 RB 4141 Ast 1505 Stl

Player B 44.7% from the field 25 PPG 5.2 RB 4.7 AST 1.4 STL totals 33643 Points 7047 RB 6306 Ast 1944 STL

Seems clear cut, but then look at PER averaging out. Player A is at 18.4 player B is at 22.9. A healthy difference. But the difference between player B and all time leader Michael Jordan is 4.9. Meaning player B is closer to player A than to the greatest ever. Player A is Reggie Miller, who didn't evne make the top 40.

Kobe over Shaw, Oscar Robertson, Hakeem even guys way behind him who're ranked too low in my opinion (David Robinson)

Aside from scoring, no statistic says Kobe is top 10. Even those scoring numbers are inflated by Kobe's tendency to just take shots. He's much more akin to AI or Melo than he is with Jordan and Bird.

His 44.7% from the field is good, but it's not amazing. Michael shot 49.7, LeBron is shooting 50.4, Kawhi is shooting 49.1, Durant is shooting 49.3, Steph 47.6, Scottie Pippen 47.3, Larry Bird 49.6, Magic Johnson 52.0, Malone 51.6 Dirk 47.1.

[NinersSBChamps]

Does Lebron want to cancel the season still?

[Runnin]

Lakers lose wearing the Kobe Mambo jerseys. lmao

unkingly James has a chance to take the last shot to win but throws it out. He could've gotten his shot off and/or drawn a foul. Can't wait to hear Skip Bayliss and Shannon Sharpe on this one.

[NinersSBChamps]

It was the right decision. He penetrated the lane and defense swarmed him. Kicked out to their best three point shooter and he Green missed a wide open look.
This is coming from a Lebron hater.

Anyway I am sure the Lakers impose their will and win handily in game 6. It’s no surprise the Heat started playing better after the ratings came out for games 1 and 2.

[Runnin]

It was the right decision. He penetrated the lane and defense swarmed him. Kicked out to their best three point shooter and he Green missed a wide open look.
This is coming from a Lebron hater.

Anyway I am sure the Lakers impose their will and win handily in game 6. It’s no surprise the Heat started playing better after the ratings came out for games 1 and 2.

There is no one right play. His first mistake was having the ball too early and his second mistake was committing to drive to the rim too early when he didn't have a clear lane to the basket. 4 guys swarmed him. But he could've easily gotten a 10 - 15 footer and a foul.

It was a horrible end of game offensive sequence, but that's what you get with a point power forward.

[zitothebrave]

There is no one right play. His first mistake was having the ball too early and his second mistake was committing to drive to the rim too early when he didn't have a clear lane to the basket. 4 guys swarmed him. But he could've easily gotten a 10 - 15 footer and a foul.

It was a horrible end of game offensive sequence, but that's what you get with a point power forward.

40 points, 7 assists, 13 RBs, and he's the reason they lost? Come'on man.

[zitothebrave]

[Tapate50]

A guy smoking a cigar after a championship win... on a loaded team. Thats....original.

[NinersSBChamps]

Biggest fake title in sports so far.

[zitothebrave]

A guy smoking a cigar after a championship win... on a loaded team. Thats....original.

I mean greatness tends to emulate greatness

[zitothebrave]

Biggest fake title in sports so far.

I mean that's not true.

99 Spurs won in a 50 game regular season. 13 blackhawks won in a 44 game regular season. There was 60 or so games played by everyone before COVID delayed everything. People will always make excuses to try to bring down LeBron, who's one of the greatest to play the game. It's like idiots who argue that Maradona is better than Messi, or Jeter was better than A-Rod. Some people just can't recognize greatness when they see it. LeBron is the best total NBA player of all-time. Jordan is a much better scorer, no comparison. And Jordan I would argue is a much fiercer competitor (which isn't to say LeBron isn't a fierce competitor, Jordan was toxic in his level of competitiveness) Wilt is a better scorer than Jordan, KAJ's longevity and defensive work make him an all-time great, There are people who're better than LeBRon, I won't deny that. But he's this generations Jordan. We may not see another total dominant player like James. And I think that's OK. THe NBA seems to be reverting back to the team paly and strategy era and that's fine. I think it makes for more interesting games. Watching a dominating team performance like the Spurs or Warriors as opposed to freak athletes hulking out.

[NinersSBChamps]

He got a near five month layoff and the easiest path to the finals. It’s a complete joke.

[acesfull86]

He got the same layoff everyone else had and he can only beat the teams he has to play...

[Runnin]

MJ liked cigars, too.

Lebron will never be my GOAT, no matter how many championships he wins. His ball skills are suspect and his game is aesthetically ugly. Magic had way more finesse, as did Kareem and MJ. Lebron plays out of position, demands to be point forward, but he turns the ball over too much. But while I won't watch him anymore, I think he's gotten better and he now leads his team in assists. But why? One wonders if his insistence to play point forward is out of pure selfishness and a desire to be the "big dog". His game is just not fun to watch, but I'm old school and think big guys should be big guys and not bring the ball up the court. When they do it disrupts his team's offensive flow. There's nothing interesting about watching a big, brawny guy bull his way to the rim.

I know he's worked really hard to improve the flaws in his game, to become a ball handling guard giant and I give him reluctant kudos for that. I also respect his determination and work ethic. There's no doubt that he wants to be the GOAT, evidenced by his whiny comments about not getting the respect he thinks he deserves. Both his game and sportsmanship are unpleasant to look at.

[zitothebrave]

MJ liked cigars, too.

Lebron will never be my GOAT, no matter how many championships he wins. His ball skills are suspect and his game is aesthetically ugly. Magic had way more finesse, as did Kareem and MJ. Lebron plays out of position, demands to be point forward, but he turns the ball over too much. But while I won't watch him anymore, I think he's gotten better and he now leads his team in assists. But why? One wonders if his insistence to play point forward is out of pure selfishness and a desire to be the "big dog". His game is just not fun to watch, but I'm old school and think big guys should be big guys and not bring the ball up the court. When they do it disrupts his team's offensive flow. There's nothing interesting about watching a big, brawny guy bull his way to the rim.

I know he's worked really hard to improve the flaws in his game, to become a ball handling guard giant and I give him reluctant kudos for that. I also respect his determination and work ethic. There's no doubt that he wants to be the GOAT, evidenced by his whiny comments about not getting the respect he thinks he deserves. Both his game and sportsmanship are unpleasant to look at.

I don't know what you're ranting about.

LeBron isn't a big man. He's the same height as Magic. He's physically larger, but that's because conditioning is night and day better now than it used to be. So how could you like Magic but not like LeBron?

You say LeBron turns it over too much, his 3.5 TOV per game is lower than Magic's 3.9.

I mean I think you don't like LeBron because basketball is played differently than when you grew up watching. LeBron's domination of the league is as great as Michael's was when he played. LeBron is a total beast who dominates the game in a new way.

LeBron has always been great. To point to his greatness I give you a few things.

LeBron is on the Cavs with his second best teammate as either Varajeo or Williams, they won the division before being Bounced by the Big 3 of the Celtics. The next season they had the worst record in the conference and 2nd worst in the NBA, Miami before LeBron joined were 3rd in their division, LeBron Joins they win the division and go to the finals. LeBron leaves the Heat after a trip to the NBA finals, second best player is wade or Bosh, Next season Miami can't break .500 and miss the playoffs. The year before LeBron returned to Cleveland they won 33 games, they win 20 more games and guess what happens after LeBron leaves Cleveland? LeBron finally goes somewhere and doesn't propel them to championship contenders in LA, but they can Lonzo Ball and get Davis and smoke.

[zitothebrave]

He got a near five month layoff and the easiest path to the finals. It’s a complete joke.

I'm sorry that the other teams didn't have the same time off. How unfair of the NBA. As far as easiest path to the finals, they beat the teams they had to beat.

[NinersSBChamps]

Winning this title means absolutely nothing. It doesn’t tilt him one way or the other. He’s still a great player without this ring. It doesn’t do any thorn at all.

[NinersSBChamps]

Lebron also wanted to cancel the playoffs a few weeks ago.

[acesfull86]

Pisses me off as a Knick fan to see the Lakers win a title. They rivaled us in drama and incompetency for the better part of a decade, but they have nicer weather then we do and were thus bailed out by LeBron.

[zitothebrave]

Winning this title means absolutely nothing. It doesn’t tilt him one way or the other. He’s still a great player without this ring. It doesn’t do any thorn at all.

It does nothing because the rings argument is dumb. By that logic no player will ever be better than Bill Russell. and Bob Horry is the best player of the last 30 years.

Rings don't matter.

Personally I find the GOAT discussions to be dumb. Because the game changes over time. The league Jordan played in isn't the same as the league LeBron played in which isn't the same as the league Wilt played in, which isn't the same as the league Bird played in, which isn't the same as the league Russell played in.