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  1. #14721
    Shift Leader thethe's Avatar
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    You all ready for a decade long Thunder dominance?
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    Quote Originally Posted by thethe View Post
    You all ready for a decade long Thunder dominance?
    Think they go with Chet?

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    Quote Originally Posted by chop2chip View Post
    Think they go with Chet?
    No question about it if he isn’t #1.

    If he’s not there I could see them trading back with Kings and see who is left from the top 4.
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    Waiting for Free Agency acesfull86's Avatar
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    The Nets are imploding and I love it

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    Connoisseur of Minors zitothebrave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by acesfull86 View Post
    The Nets are imploding and I love it
    I was scrolling through twitter and saw a meme on this and thought it was accurate.

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    Waiting for Free Agency acesfull86's Avatar
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    The Minnesota GM should be prosecuted for that Rudy Gobert trade. 4 first rounders, three of them unprotected, one top 5 protected, and a pick swap, and the guy they just drafted in the 1st round this year...for Rudy Gobert? Woof.

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    Quote Originally Posted by acesfull86 View Post
    The Minnesota GM should be prosecuted for that Rudy Gobert trade. 4 first rounders, three of them unprotected, one top 5 protected, and a pick swap, and the guy they just drafted in the 1st round this year...for Rudy Gobert? Woof.
    Yeah that's awful, i'm not even sure who they were bidding against to offer that much for Rudy.

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    That trade makes no sense. Robert can’t be in the floor in many late game situations comes playoff time.
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    I’m a Jazz fan. I’m obviously thrilled with the haul, but Gobert is a great player. Minnesota should at least assume Utah’s floor (50+ wins) for the next couple years. For a team that’s been historically bad for two decades that means something.

    I don’t understand the hype with Anthony Edwards. But if he reaches the ceiling everyone seems to think he has, then that’s a legitimate title contender.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thethe View Post
    That trade makes no sense. Robert can’t be in the floor in many late game situations comes playoff time.
    I think this narrative is tragically overstated. I will concede that you can mitigate his impact going five out, but if the Jazz had athletic wings then teams wouldn’t have been able to do this.

    Even if Gobert is in Minnesota to win regular season games, that might be worth it if you think Edwards and KAT can punish teams that go small late.
    Last edited by chop2chip; 07-02-2022 at 03:12 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chop2chip View Post
    I think this narrative is tragically overstated. I will concede that you can mitigate his impact going five out, but if the Jazz had athletic wings then teams wouldn’t have been able to do this.

    Even if Gobert is in Minnesota to win regular season games, that might be worth it if you think Edwards and KAT can punish teams that go small late.
    Is Gobert good enough on offense without a strong facilitating attack wing (not Edwards) to offset how he will get pulled out into 85% of PnR action in the last four minutes of a playoff game? I'm not buying it personally. Like you said the impact throughout the game of just deterring drives is immensely valuable. Think the Wolves are just banking on Edwards being a top 5 player and that all those are late first rounders. KAT is a good enough shooter where there is a chance it works. Should be interesting to watch.

    Spurs and soon to be Jazz have now officially entered the tanking sweepstakes for a loaded 2023 draft.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thethe View Post
    Is Gobert good enough on offense without a strong facilitating attack wing (not Edwards) to offset how he will get pulled out into 85% of PnR action in the last four minutes of a playoff game? I'm not buying it personally. Like you said the impact throughout the game of just deterring drives is immensely valuable. Think the Wolves are just banking on Edwards being a top 5 player and that all those are late first rounders. KAT is a good enough shooter where there is a chance it works. Should be interesting to watch.

    Spurs and soon to be Jazz have now officially entered the tanking sweepstakes for a loaded 2023 draft.
    I think Gobert is a really valuable offensive weapon, the Jazz built their offense off his screen setting and gravity from his rim running and they have had the best offense in basketball for the last two years. Switching defenses killed the Jazz because their perimeter defenders could never stop dribble penetration. That’s an indictment on Mitchell not Gobert. But you’re right, going 5 out forced the Jazz to (1) leave a shooter open or (2) take Gobert out of the paint and hope they could stop penetration. If the Jazz had a way to punish small lineups, they could have stopped this approach but they never figured it out. That’s why they had to break up this team.

    I don’t think the Jazz tank. But they probably should. They owe their 2024 FRP to the Thunder (top 10 protected), so bottoming out for a couple years might make sense. Danny Ainge had two masterful rebuilds in Boston, so I trust he knows what he’s doing.

    In the end, I’m just sad it ended this way. Donovan Mitchell was such a nice young kid that really embraced Utah his first few years and was an exceptional teammate. Since the Gobert Covid incident, he really turned into a diva. I admire his social justice activism and it seems he’s really soured on the idea of living in a conservative state like Utah (I don’t agree with his politics, but I appreciate anyone for caring). It’s probably best for it to end now while the Jazz can stockpile an enormous asset pool. The ownership, front office, and coaching staff is first class, so I trust they’ll do well rebuilding.

  14. #14733
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    Kyrie for Westbrook would put KD and Westbrook together again, which would be hilarious.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Runnin View Post
    Kyrie for Westbrook would put KD and Westbrook together again, which would be hilarious.
    KD's getting traded.

  16. #14735
    Connoisseur of Minors zitothebrave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Runnin View Post
    Kyrie for Westbrook would put KD and Westbrook together again, which would be hilarious.
    I would be shocked if Kyrie goes to join Lebron. Also I woudl assume Kyrie would go to a team without COVID restrictions.
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  17. #14736
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    Quote Originally Posted by chop2chip View Post
    I think Gobert is a really valuable offensive weapon, the Jazz built their offense off his screen setting and gravity from his rim running and they have had the best offense in basketball for the last two years. Switching defenses killed the Jazz because their perimeter defenders could never stop dribble penetration. That’s an indictment on Mitchell not Gobert. But you’re right, going 5 out forced the Jazz to (1) leave a shooter open or (2) take Gobert out of the paint and hope they could stop penetration. If the Jazz had a way to punish small lineups, they could have stopped this approach but they never figured it out. That’s why they had to break up this team.

    I don’t think the Jazz tank. But they probably should. They owe their 2024 FRP to the Thunder (top 10 protected), so bottoming out for a couple years might make sense. Danny Ainge had two masterful rebuilds in Boston, so I trust he knows what he’s doing.

    In the end, I’m just sad it ended this way. Donovan Mitchell was such a nice young kid that really embraced Utah his first few years and was an exceptional teammate. Since the Gobert Covid incident, he really turned into a diva. I admire his social justice activism and it seems he’s really soured on the idea of living in a conservative state like Utah (I don’t agree with his politics, but I appreciate anyone for caring). It’s probably best for it to end now while the Jazz can stockpile an enormous asset pool. The ownership, front office, and coaching staff is first class, so I trust they’ll do well rebuilding.
    Jazz also had two very smart ball handlers in Conley/Ingles with Mitchell being a borderline super star. You obvious know the Jazz a lot better but I don't think Gobert will be unlocked more by an inferior set of playmakers in Minnesota.

    I don't see why the Jazz would try and compete knowing that Mitchell has a foot out the door. Since "The Process" teams have gotten much smarter about tanking and the flattening of the odds has made it where you don't need to have a race to the bottom...just bottom three. Its a shame that this core team didn't take that next step when everyone thought it would happen after you embarrassed the RW/PG3 team. The life of a NBA franchise. You have to have a **** ton of luck in drafting guys and then more luck in putting the right pieces around the core. Its time for the Jazz to take a step back and model their rebuilds after DET/HOU/OKC.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thethe View Post
    Jazz also had two very smart ball handlers in Conley/Ingles with Mitchell being a borderline super star. You obvious know the Jazz a lot better but I don't think Gobert will be unlocked more by an inferior set of playmakers in Minnesota.

    I don't see why the Jazz would try and compete knowing that Mitchell has a foot out the door. Since "The Process" teams have gotten much smarter about tanking and the flattening of the odds has made it where you don't need to have a race to the bottom...just bottom three. Its a shame that this core team didn't take that next step when everyone thought it would happen after you embarrassed the RW/PG3 team. The life of a NBA franchise. You have to have a **** ton of luck in drafting guys and then more luck in putting the right pieces around the core. Its time for the Jazz to take a step back and model their rebuilds after DET/HOU/OKC.
    This is a fair criticism of Minnesota. The Jazz were loaded with shooters and smart players. I’ll also be interested to see if Finch (great coach) will be able to optimize Rudy as well as Snyder did. Gobert is certainly more scheme dependent than other superstars.

    I think there is a world where the Jazz S&T for Ayton and Mitchell takes a leap. In that case, maybe you can avoid a lengthy rebuild. They’ll certainly have plenty of draft assets to fill out the roster. But if Mitchell has one foot out the door, then you just gotta bite the bullet and bend someone like the Knicks over.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thethe View Post
    Jazz also had two very smart ball handlers in Conley/Ingles with Mitchell being a borderline super star. You obvious know the Jazz a lot better but I don't think Gobert will be unlocked more by an inferior set of playmakers in Minnesota.

    I don't see why the Jazz would try and compete knowing that Mitchell has a foot out the door. Since "The Process" teams have gotten much smarter about tanking and the flattening of the odds has made it where you don't need to have a race to the bottom...just bottom three. Its a shame that this core team didn't take that next step when everyone thought it would happen after you embarrassed the RW/PG3 team. The life of a NBA franchise. You have to have a **** ton of luck in drafting guys and then more luck in putting the right pieces around the core. Its time for the Jazz to take a step back and model their rebuilds after DET/HOU/OKC.
    That Thunder series was an amazing moment. But you’re right, you have to have luck in building the team around your core. The Jazz made what I thought were all the right moves (Bogdanovic and Conley were both great acquisitions and played great here). But between Covid (Gobert became a super villain for no reason) and the wing revolution, the Jazz missed their window.

    Oh well. I actually enjoy watching rebuilding teams. It will be fun to get invested in young players again. This past season was a chore.

  20. #14739
    Connoisseur of Minors zitothebrave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chop2chip View Post
    This is a fair criticism of Minnesota. The Jazz were loaded with shooters and smart players. I’ll also be interested to see if Finch (great coach) will be able to optimize Rudy as well as Snyder did. Gobert is certainly more scheme dependent than other superstars.

    I think there is a world where the Jazz S&T for Ayton and Mitchell takes a leap. In that case, maybe you can avoid a lengthy rebuild. They’ll certainly have plenty of draft assets to fill out the roster. But if Mitchell has one foot out the door, then you just gotta bite the bullet and bend someone like the Knicks over.
    The reality of rebuild teams are you have to suck hard for a year or two. Sixers had this issue bad with AI and later Iggy With AI they kept making the playoffs, which meant no shot at the draft lottery. So they kept getting middling players.

    IMO if they can't lock up mitchell, ship him out. Great player, but he could cause you to be a middling team who doesn't get super high picks.
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  21. #14740
    Waiting for Free Agency acesfull86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thethe View Post
    That trade makes no sense. Robert can’t be in the floor in many late game situations comes playoff time.
    I still can’t wrap my head around it. Maybe the criticism of Gobert is overblown, but if I’m trading essentially 4 unprotected first rounders, it can’t be for a player where there’s even a question of whether he can be on the court down the stretch of playoff games.

    I hope my Knicks pass on Mitchell. There was a time when I wanted him, but with 6’1” Jalen Brunson now in the backcourt, I can’t see how those two would make sense together. Way too small a backcourt.
    Last edited by acesfull86; 07-03-2022 at 07:53 AM.

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