Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 51

Thread: Third-World Problems

  1. #21
    Hessmania Forever
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    14,063
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    4,906
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    7,726
    Thanked in
    4,981 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by clvclv View Post
    So I said La Stella can't play 3B - who cares? I still say he's not good over there - or at 2B to be honest. Apparently I'm not the only one who thinks that since Joe snickered "he's not going to win any Gold Gloves at either position" yesterday during the broadcast. Maybe we're the only two people on the planet who think he's not a very good defender, but my guess is that he heard it from someone other than me.
    I'm not a La Stella hater, but I think people on both sides of the debate over him need to recognize him for what he likely is. He could grow into a very valuable piece on a team where he gets about 250 ABs per year playing some 2B, some 3B and pinch-hitting. I think he might become one of the better pinch-hitters in all of baseball. That said, he's probably not a big-league starter given his defensive issues (at any position).

    Former Twins' manager Tom Kelly was a noted crank on his weekly radio call-in show and one year reserve IF Denny Hocking was really killing the ball. Hocking logged over 400 PAs for Kelly two years in a row with decent output, but he never was a full-time starter at one position. So Hocking is on a tear and the caller asks (and I paraphrase), "Hocking is hitting so well, why isn't he in there every day?" Kelly in his characteristically sarcastic fashion shot back "Did it dawn on you that he's probably hitting so well because he doesn't play every day?" The gist of Kelly's comments were that some guys wear down and rather than play "hot hand" with them until they grind down to nothing for the last couple months of the season, find spots where they work for the team (and themselves) and employ them in those situations.

    La Stella is in the perfect spot for himself. Maddon always seems to get the most out of guys like La Stella by putting them in spots where they can succeed without expecting too much of them. Bobby was pretty good at that as well. Fredi, not so much. And in fairness to Fredi not many managers are good at this, but I see more trying to employ more flexible use of players. As an example, Chip Hale is moving Drury all over the place in Arizona.

    As for Markakis, I still think the animus towards him is more about who he replaced than who he is. I didn't like the length of Markakis' contract, but he's still a decent baseball player. His fielding has really fallen off, but he is one of the few guys on the 2016 Braves who knows what he is doing with a bat in his hands.

    To the major point of the thread (sorry for hijacking a bit), I actually thought the chances of them being worse this year was pretty high and the signings of guys like Norris only reinforced my views. I think the bullpen will shake out alright, although the lack of attention to signing a decent LHP option was short-sighted. Offensively, we are a mess and the injury to Inciarte hasn't helped (except that it has given us a longer look at Mallex Smith, who appears to be ready for at least a bench role in the big leagues). The Olivera experiment looks to be a disaster. I can't figure out why Jace Peterson isn't playing 2B every day. There had to be someone out there better than both Francoeur and Stubbs to be the RHH contributor in the OF. Garcia is having his problems at 3B, so he really has to hit to be a net-plus. Aybar has been horrid. Freeman started slow (but appears to be coming around). But it is a terrible starting line-up and there are no ready replacements in the high minors. In short, get used to this.

    On top of the futility, the front office appears to be in disarray. The disconcerting thing about that is that Wren--of whom I wasn't particularly a fan--was let go because the top guys wanted more stability, cooperation, and stronger messaging. We have none of that right now. One of the ironies here is that it was my impression that when Wren was let go, there was a pretty strong pro-Coppolella lobby on the board because he was going to lead us to the promised land of analytics. Now it seems a lot of those folks have turned on him, mostly over the Olivera deal, but with other reservations as well. I'm wiling to wait and see if the guy can grow into the position. If not, there might be a similar move to bring in someone to put the finishing touches on the product the same way Schuerholz was brought in after Cox and Snyder had re-built the minor league system.

    I still think a re-build had to take place and if Wren wanted to do it sooner, I apologize for all the criticism I have leveled against him (well, not all). We were stuck with a fringe playoff team with a bunch of very bad contracts and impending free agency for a couple of guys who were poised for huge (I mean YUGE) paydays. We are suffering now, but hopefully a lot of the guys we acquired over the past couple of off-seasons will grow into major league contributors. I lived through the late-1980s horri-Braves, so I'm patient (and I hope polite as well). As long as we win at least 41 games and see some development, I'm good.

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to 50PoundHead For This Useful Post:

    clvclv (05-02-2016)

  3. #22
    It's OVER 5,000! 57Brave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    22,912
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,682
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,891
    Thanked in
    1,422 Posts
    In other words Tommy LaStella is a modern day Keith Lockhart
    The best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to make sure he doesn’t get a gun.

  4. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to 57Brave For This Useful Post:

    50PoundHead (05-02-2016), clvclv (05-02-2016)

  5. #23
    10 yr, $185 million Extension
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    4,760
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    4
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    981
    Thanked in
    766 Posts
    Are we arguing about LaStella? I think we killed that trade. Viz is better and we got international pool money we needed. LaStella is a decent hitter with out power and an avg at best fielder. I think we can replace that.

    I'm not sure we can totally crap on Coppy yet. This schedule is brutal. We are 3-0 vs the only peer team we have played. AJ gave away games early. Aybar was a piece I hated from a trade I disliked, but nobody thought he'd pull a BJ and become terrible as soon as he stepped off the plane. Inciarte was to be a big upgrade (mostly b/c CF was a wasteland) and he' played all of 3 games?

    Rebuild will be judged on Swanson becoming a 3+ WAR player, At least 1 pitcher we acquired being a 3+ WAR pitcher, multiple pitchers being 2+ WAR and what we do with these draft picks.

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to Russ2dollas For This Useful Post:

    clvclv (05-02-2016)

  7. #24
    NL Rookie of the Year dak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    2,604
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    204
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,252
    Thanked in
    696 Posts
    When it comes to Coppy, I started out at "Reason To Believe". I'm currently at "Reason To Wonder." I hope that I don't get to "Reason To Doubt".

  8. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to dak For This Useful Post:

    Braves1976 (05-02-2016), Hawk (05-02-2016)

  9. #25
    Hessmania Forever
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    14,063
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    4,906
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    7,726
    Thanked in
    4,981 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by 57Brave View Post
    In other words Tommy LaStella is a modern day Keith Lockhart
    Probably a tad better with the bat.

    Russ2dollas, I agree on the La Stella deal. People think it was only Vizcaino, but we also got some international pool money that went toward Randy Ventura and Bladimir Matos. Hard to argue with that, but La Stella has a posse on this board.

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to 50PoundHead For This Useful Post:

    clvclv (05-02-2016)

  11. #26
    It's OVER 5,000!
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    6,431
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    173
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,579
    Thanked in
    1,044 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by GovClintonTyree View Post
    Remember the late 90s, when we dealt Schmidt and change for Denny Neagle so that we could have four potential Cy Young starters? Or dealing for Gary Sheffield, so we'd have enough juice (heh) in October? Or when we'd get Leo a reclamation project or two and they'd round out the bullpen?

    Now we play a man down because the scrub we cut in early April hasn't been off the roster long enough to bring him back (and why, pray?) when we demote another hard-throwing TJ reliever who can't locate.

    This front office has made enough deals that some of them are bound to pay off, but I'm about as impressed with Coppalella as most of us are with Fredi.

    This team lacks running water and electricity. I'm waiting for Coppy to give an interview where he makes the ultimate proclamation of excellence, borrowed from Chuck LaMarr after eight years of Devil Ray futility: "If you remove major league W-L record from the analysis, we are one of the highest rated teams in baseball."

    I'm sure they'll move Swanson and Albies and maybe a few others (Ruiz?) up the ladder with dispatch, and I'm sure impressed with Blair and Wisler. In the meantime, this is one sorry collection of stiffs and in my judgement it's the FO believing their own bull****. Braves Way, my ass. How do you bung up a procedural move like that? It looks bad. Hell, it IS bad.
    Does any of you honestly believe the Braves' goal for this year was to win major league games?

    This roster is not indicative of the kind of team the FO wants to field. It's a place-holder, nothing more.

  12. #27
    It's OVER 5,000!
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    6,431
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    173
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,579
    Thanked in
    1,044 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Julio3000 View Post
    "I do know we’re going to be better next year than we were this year.”

    --Coppy, in the past offseason

    That's not GM-speak. That's an unambiguous statement.

    That's the kind of thing that causes me to be skeptical of the communications coming out of the FO.

    I mean, I understand the bright-side case for how we COULD be better. If, you know, everybody stays healthy and plays up to expectations. If that's what you're counting on, and you're willing to state it as a certainty, might as well go ahead and secure the financial future of the club by picking up some Powerball tickets.
    My one problem with Coppy from the beginning has been his communication. When he continued to say that, I wondered why, because there was no way to know it was true. I don't for a second believe Coppy even cared all that much about us being better than last year; I think he hoped it was true so that we could look like we were building going into 2017, but he obviously didn't care enough to make sure to field a competitive team, and that's fine with me.

    I just don't get why he said it.

  13. #28
    It's OVER 5,000!
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    6,431
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    173
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,579
    Thanked in
    1,044 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by nsacpi View Post
    cost us the #1 pick. I believe that has been the reasoning behind the critique. He helps us in years when it doesn't matter and doesn't help us in years when it does matter. Note that I am summarizing a view that I don't necessarily subscribe to.
    There hasn't been a single person who has brought up the #1 pick in discussing the Markakis signing.

    The criticism of that signing has been that it doesn't make sense when we're not competitive and that it cost too much. The first criticism is at least somewhat justified, though you have to field a team and the money wasn't going anywhere else anyway (and we likely have a payroll floor we must stay above); the second criticism is and always was dumb.

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to smootness For This Useful Post:

    clvclv (05-02-2016)

  15. #29
    10 yr, $185 million Extension
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    4,760
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    4
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    981
    Thanked in
    766 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by smootness View Post
    There hasn't been a single person who has brought up the #1 pick in discussing the Markakis signing.

    The criticism of that signing has been that it doesn't make sense when we're not competitive and that it cost too much. The first criticism is at least somewhat justified, though you have to field a team and the money wasn't going anywhere else anyway (and we likely have a payroll floor we must stay above); the second criticism is and always was dumb.
    agree.

    number 1 pick does not seem to mean much this year. Seems like we'd be in for the same mix of players, only difference is two might be gone before we pick. It's not like there is a consensus 1-1 out there.

    If Markakis plays like this we might get a really good asset in return.

    Teams have gotten desperate for bats at the deadline before.

  16. #30
    NL Rookie of the Year dak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    2,604
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    204
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,252
    Thanked in
    696 Posts
    IMO, this is also not a good look for the FO. Just seems a bit hackneyed to make wholesale roster changes of bench players 4 weeks into the season. Also, I know many don't like Stubbs K rate, but he's basically performed to expectations.


  17. The Following User Says Thank You to dak For This Useful Post:

    Braves1976 (05-02-2016)

  18. #31
    Steve Harvey'd
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    19,267
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,859
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    5,367
    Thanked in
    3,384 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by dak View Post
    IMO, this is also not a good look for the FO. Just seems a bit hackneyed to make wholesale roster changes of bench players 4 weeks into the season. Also, I know many don't like Stubbs K rate, but he's basically performed to expectations.

    me thinks you made a wrong turn at albuquerque

  19. #32
    "What is a clvclv"
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Nebo, NC
    Posts
    9,634
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    5,354
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,340
    Thanked in
    1,628 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Russ2dollas View Post
    agree.

    number 1 pick does not seem to mean much this year. Seems like we'd be in for the same mix of players, only difference is two might be gone before we pick. It's not like there is a consensus 1-1 out there.

    If Markakis plays like this we might get a really good asset in return.

    Teams have gotten desperate for bats at the deadline before.
    I seem to recall the Giants giving up six years of control over some kid named Zack Wheeler for two months of Carlos Beltran.

    Before anyone screams, that doesn't mean anyone here EXPECTS that type of return - it's just an example of what we've seen teams "in the hunt" desperate enough to do in the past.
    Has there EVER been a statement and question a certain someone should absolutely never have made and asked publicly more than...

    Kinda pathetic to see yourself as a message board knight in shining armor. How impotent does someone have to be in real life to resort to playing hero on a message board?

  20. #33
    It's OVER 5,000! Braves1976's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    15,027
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    7,679
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,207
    Thanked in
    1,642 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by clvclv View Post
    So I said La Stella can't play 3B - who cares? I still say he's not good over there - or at 2B to be honest. Apparently I'm not the only one who thinks that since Joe snickered "he's not going to win any Gold Gloves at either position" yesterday during the broadcast. Maybe we're the only two people on the planet who think he's not a very good defender, but my guess is that he heard it from someone other than me.
    As I stated back then and in the second post linked: "Now it is understandable to expect La Stella not to be good defensively at third. But to post saying he didn't look very comfortable there while citing a game that he had zero balls hit to him seems rather dishonest IMO." I could go on but it's not worth my time.

  21. #34
    It's OVER 5,000! Braves1976's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    15,027
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    7,679
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,207
    Thanked in
    1,642 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by 50PoundHead View Post
    Probably a tad better with the bat.

    Russ2dollas, I agree on the La Stella deal. People think it was only Vizcaino, but we also got some international pool money that went toward Randy Ventura and Bladimir Matos. Hard to argue with that, but La Stella has a posse on this board.
    I wasn't arguing for La Stella defensively at third nor arguing over that trade as I supported it at the time.

  22. #35
    It's OVER 5,000! Braves1976's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    15,027
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    7,679
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,207
    Thanked in
    1,642 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Russ2dollas View Post
    Are we arguing about LaStella? I think we killed that trade. Viz is better and we got international pool money we needed. LaStella is a decent hitter with out power and an avg at best fielder. I think we can replace that.

    I'm not sure we can totally crap on Coppy yet. This schedule is brutal. We are 3-0 vs the only peer team we have played. AJ gave away games early. Aybar was a piece I hated from a trade I disliked, but nobody thought he'd pull a BJ and become terrible as soon as he stepped off the plane. Inciarte was to be a big upgrade (mostly b/c CF was a wasteland) and he' played all of 3 games?

    Rebuild will be judged on Swanson becoming a 3+ WAR player, At least 1 pitcher we acquired being a 3+ WAR pitcher, multiple pitchers being 2+ WAR and what we do with these draft picks.
    No one was arguing over La Stella, 50 jumped the gun following clvclv's spin not realizing what the discussion was really about.

  23. #36
    Hessmania Forever
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    14,063
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    4,906
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    7,726
    Thanked in
    4,981 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Braves1976 View Post
    No one was arguing over La Stella, 50 jumped the gun following clvclv's spin not realizing what the discussion was really about.
    I didn't jump the gun. I've been waiting to post that for weeks and finally got my chance.

  24. The Following User Says Thank You to 50PoundHead For This Useful Post:

    Braves1976 (05-02-2016)

  25. #37
    Connoisseur of Minors zitothebrave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    DANGERZONE
    Posts
    24,782
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,432
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3,440
    Thanked in
    2,469 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by rico43 View Post
    Much of the criticism here is on point, very fair and justified. But I remain mystified that anyone has a problem with the Braves signing Markakis.
    I do, not the amount, but the length. I'd have been happy with 2/25-30 or 3/33, but 4/44 is a massive overpay and odds are in short time he'll be an 11M bench player
    Stockholm, more densely populated than NYC - sturg

  26. #38
    It's OVER 5,000! Braves1976's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    15,027
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    7,679
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,207
    Thanked in
    1,642 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by 50PoundHead View Post
    I didn't jump the gun. I've been waiting to post that for weeks and finally got my chance.
    Haha. I just wasn't debating for La Stella here, he was just a strawman set-up to be knocked down to distract from the point I was making. That said, maybe Zito or someone would debate y'all on La Stella or that trade. I supported it as it's no secret I liked Viz first go around and still now. Plus those bonus slots were value back and helped too.

  27. #39
    "What is a clvclv"
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Nebo, NC
    Posts
    9,634
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    5,354
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,340
    Thanked in
    1,628 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Braves1976 View Post
    Haha. I just wasn't debating for La Stella here, he was just a strawman set-up to be knocked down to distract from the point I was making. That said, maybe Zito or someone would debate y'all on La Stella or that trade. I supported it as it's no secret I liked Viz first go around and still now. Plus those bonus slots were value back and helped too.
    Then what's the issue?

    Nit-pick it to death all you want. La Stella's a bit-player at best, and hurts you wherever you play him defensively. He's Jace Peterson with a better bat and less glove. Keith Lockhart's actually a pretty good comparison. He's a dime-a-dozen guy. These are people you'd spend your time looking at if you were running a team? Wow.
    Has there EVER been a statement and question a certain someone should absolutely never have made and asked publicly more than...

    Kinda pathetic to see yourself as a message board knight in shining armor. How impotent does someone have to be in real life to resort to playing hero on a message board?

  28. #40
    Connoisseur of Minors zitothebrave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    DANGERZONE
    Posts
    24,782
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,432
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3,440
    Thanked in
    2,469 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Braves1976 View Post
    Haha. I just wasn't debating for La Stella here, he was just a strawman set-up to be knocked down to distract from the point I was making. That said, maybe Zito or someone would debate y'all on La Stella or that trade. I supported it as it's no secret I liked Viz first go around and still now. Plus those bonus slots were value back and helped too.
    FWIW La Stella is ripping the tits off the ball in his little plate time. That being said, on a team with ZObrist and Baez, he won't play much.

    I hope a team who needs a 2B trades for him. Would be interesting to see what he could do in a season.
    Stockholm, more densely populated than NYC - sturg

  29. The Following User Says Thank You to zitothebrave For This Useful Post:

    Braves1976 (05-02-2016)

Similar Threads

  1. First World Problems
    By zitothebrave in forum WILD WILD JOE WEST
    Replies: 211
    Last Post: 07-22-2016, 07:26 PM
  2. Problems in Gwinnett?
    By rico43 in forum 2024: The Campaign to Re-Elect Snit for Four More Years and Make Atlanta Great Again!
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 07-18-2016, 01:13 PM
  3. How Many World Titles Would We Have
    By SJ24 in forum 2024: The Campaign to Re-Elect Snit for Four More Years and Make Atlanta Great Again!
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: 07-06-2016, 09:07 AM
  4. DOTW 4/15/'14: Medlen & Beachy Problems
    By The Chosen One in forum 2024: The Campaign to Re-Elect Snit for Four More Years and Make Atlanta Great Again!
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 04-16-2014, 02:26 PM
  5. Real Problems
    By BedellBrave in forum LOCKER ROOM TALK
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 12-21-2013, 10:53 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •