The Trade Scenario no one has mentioned

[rico43]

What might ought to be remembered is the Dansby Swanson Rule (let's call it that), which in 2015 was created to allow MLB teams to trade that year's draft picks beginning the day after the World Series ends. Before 2015, teams had to wait a year to deal anyone from that June's draft. In the grand scheme of things, that means that just because the Braves don't draft someone doesn't mean they don't have a way of getting them later.

If the Braves wait until the end of the season to, say, trade Teheran, they could easily find some of this year's draft gems available in a package.

I'm not saying that's the way i would go -- I think his trade value will be its highest at the trade deadline -- but the upcoming offseason is going to be nuts.

[nsacpi]

I thought you might be headed somewhere else with your idea for a trade that has not been discussed. The one that comes to mind for me is trading away one of Swanson or Albies if both develop defensively in a way to suggest they can be above average defensive major league shortstops. That would be really the only way of maximizing value from the two of them.

[The Chosen One]

I thought you might be headed somewhere else with your idea for a trade that has not been discussed. The one that comes to mind for me is trading away one of Swanson or Albies if both develop defensively in a way to suggest they can be above average defensive major league shortstops. That would be really the only way of maximizing value from the two of them.

If we keep trading away Curacaon players, sooner or later the next-generation of kids there will never want to sign or play for us.

[smootness]

I thought you might be headed somewhere else with your idea for a trade that has not been discussed. The one that comes to mind for me is trading away one of Swanson or Albies if both develop defensively in a way to suggest they can be above average defensive major league shortstops. That would be really the only way of maximizing value from the two of them.

Heeeeeeeck no.

Their value can absolutely still be maximized with one of them playing 2B. I don't know where that idea came from.

[bravos4evr]

I thought you might be headed somewhere else with your idea for a trade that has not been discussed. The one that comes to mind for me is trading away one of Swanson or Albies if both develop defensively in a way to suggest they can be above average defensive major league shortstops. That would be really the only way of maximizing value from the two of them.

Um, 2nd base value would be helped by their defense if they continue to hit. I wouldn't throw away that potential 6 year value (not to mention the chance of an extension while they are young) Unless the return was all star quality already (and under control )

[nsacpi]

Does anyone think Cal Ripken's value would have been greater playing any position other than short? Andrelton Simmons? Ozzie Smith? Even average or below average fielders like Derek Jeter. If a player can stick at short, then his maximum value is derived from playing him there. Full stop. End of argument.

[auyushu]

Does anyone think Cal Ripken's value would have been greater playing any position other than short? Andrelton Simmons? Ozzie Smith? Even average or below average fielders like Derek Jeter. If a player can stick at short, then his maximum value is derived from playing him there. Full stop. End of argument.

Their value as a player sure, but we are talking about their value to the Braves, that's a different thing altogether. They have far more value as an elite 2B for us than we'd get in trade (barring some GM being an idiot like the Dbacks).

[bravos4evr]

Does anyone think Cal Ripken's value would have been greater playing any position other than short? Andrelton Simmons? Ozzie Smith? Even average or below average fielders like Derek Jeter. If a player can stick at short, then his maximum value is derived from playing him there. Full stop. End of argument.

welll....... it really depends. Jeter's awful defense meant he would have probably provided more value at 2b or 3b once they got A-Rod. For big time defense guys, sure you keep them at SS at all possible. But, if you have two guys who are SS capable, and you have need at 2b AND SS you put the best defender at SS and the other guy at 2b, problem solved! YAY for 6 years of control for 2 solid young middle infielders!

[GovClintonTyree]

Does anyone think Cal Ripken's value would have been greater playing any position other than short? Andrelton Simmons? Ozzie Smith? Even average or below average fielders like Derek Jeter. If a player can stick at short, then his maximum value is derived from playing him there. Full stop. End of argument.

I understand and intellectually agree with your argument.

I don't like it.

[GovClintonTyree]

Heeeeeeeck no.

Their value can absolutely still be maximized with one of them playing 2B. I don't know where that idea came from.

Hey, with the proliferation of shifting we should just slide one to third. They'll play short a third of the time that way.

[nsacpi]

I understand and intellectually agree with your argument.

I don't like it.

I don't like it either. I'm a fan of both Swanson and Albies. But some team will likely have a higher valuation on the one we move to second than the player can realize by staying at second.

[depley]

I think that having Albies and Swanson creates a problem elsewhere, in the outfield you have Inciarte and Mallex Smith, if you add Albies, to Mallex and Inciarte you have a pretty weak lineup with speed but little power, I am not sure you want all 3 playing at the same time, as Swanson, also has speed to go with his game. I am pretty high on Inciarte over Mallex just because I feel he is a far superior defense CF. You need power to come from somewhere, so if has to be 1B, corner of spots and 3b. 3b the only power guy we currently have is a lousy fielder, and we have no power in the outfield to speak of. Where does one go from here? I certainly do not know, but I would see Mallex Smith as a tradeable asset, I would see Garcia as a tradeable asset to an AL team. I am sure the FO sees Francoeur and Beckham, and hope some of the RP have some value at the deadline, not sure if they do, but there is hope.

[bravos4evr]

I think that having Albies and Swanson creates a problem elsewhere, in the outfield you have Enciarte and Mallex Smith, if you add Albies, to Mallex and Enciarte you have a pretty weak lineup with speed but little power, I am not sure you want all 3 playing at the same time, as Swanson, also has speed to go with his game. I am pretty high on Enciarte over Mallex just because I feel he is a far superior defense CF. You need power to come from somewhere, so if has to be 1B, corner of spots and 3b. 3b the only power guy we currently have is a lousy fielder, and we have no power in the outfield to speak of. Where does one go from here? I certainly do not know, but I would see Mallex Smith as a tradeable asset, I would see Garcia as a tradeable asset to an AL team. I am sure the FO sees Francoeur and Beckham, and hope some of the RP have some value at the deadline, not sure if they do, but there is hope.

power is great to have, but WAR is WAR and value is value. If you get lots of production from your players in ANY POSSIBLE MANNER then the team will do well. There is still a corner spot, 3b, catcher and 1B that could hit dingers. I will take 3 speed OBP guys and Swanson (has a bit more pop than the others) along with 3 20-25 home run guys and a 2 win catcher any day of the week.

and where do we go from here? we cash in some of those prospects for bats, we promote, we look at free agency and the international markets, and we are patient.

[Braves1976]

power is great to have, but WAR is WAR and value is value. If you get lots of production from your players in ANY POSSIBLE MANNER then the team will do well. There is still a corner spot, 3b, catcher and 1B that could hit dingers. I will take 3 speed OBP guys and Swanson (has a bit more pop than the others) along with 3 20-25 home run guys and a 2 win catcher any day of the week.

and where do we go from here? we cash in some of those prospects for bats, we promote, we look at free agency and the international markets, and we are patient.

I mostly agree with you here as far as believing we can have all four of Albies, Swanson, Inciarte and Smith and be fine as long as we fill most of the other positions with some players that have some power, etc. However, we will need to find a way to move Markakis to make that work.

[Enscheff]

I don't think the Braves should trade away any young position players other than one of Inciarte or Mallex (I don't think there is room in the OF of a contender for 2 guys with zero power, but that's a totally separate topic). Assuming Albies is the one that moves to 2b, he will likely be well above average at the position and will earn a lot of defensive WAR there.

[bravos4evr]

I mostly agree with you here as far as believing we can have all four of Albies, Swanson, Inciarte and Smith and be fine as long as we fill most of the other positions with some players that have some power, etc. However, we will need to find a way to move Markakis to make that work.

If he can get his numbers back up to the .275/.360/.370 range before the deadline and the braves agree to kick in say $3 mill a year or so, I think they might be able to find a new home for him. His signing was my #1 "wtf?" that happened when the new regime took over, it made absolutely zero sense relative to everything that followed.

[bravos4evr]

I don't think the Braves should trade away any young position players other than one of Inciarte or Mallex (I don't think there is room in the OF of a contender for 2 guys with zero power, but that's a totally separate topic). Assuming Albies is the one that moves to 2b, he will likely be well above average at the position and will earn a lot of defensive WAR there.

I agree, 2b and SS are hard to fill with good value, no reason to trade any of our young middle infielders unless better options arrive.

I'd keep Inciarte too, I think he's the better player long term.

[chipchildress]

I don't like it either. I'm a fan of both Swanson and Albies. But some team will likely have a higher valuation on the one we move to second than the player can realize by staying at second.

i just scanned a prospect list from before this season and he's like the 17th best shortstop or something listed, and that's already being a top 100 player. there may have been one listed second baseman on the list. my econ grades weren't great but something about supply and demand make me have to question this assumed notion that albies would achieve maximum value as a shortstop. if all of the top prospects every year are shortstops, that tells me that there's a lot of damn shortstops our there who are young. with 16 guys listed better than albies as a shortstop, how do you think you'll get anybody to give you some great return for him when half of the teams out there already have a shortstop prospect just as highly rated as he is or better, while most of those other teams out there probably already have shortstops that can play on their big league rosters.


just to repeat...there are 16 shortstops listed as better prospects than albies. there are one or two second basemen. i get that players move positions and shortstops turn into second basemen and all that, but i can't get past the sheer numbers of talented shortstops out there. they are everywhere. hell, the braves have the fewest number of good position players throughout their organization i've ever seen and they still have freaking swanson and albies.

[bravos4evr]

well to be fair, something like slightly less than half of all minor league top 100 SS's end up playing SS in MLB long term. (see Chipper, Hanley and others) and because SS has so much positional value, teams generally try to keep guys there as long as possible so as to maintain value .

hell, the braves have the fewest number of good position players throughout their organization i've ever seen and they still have freaking swanson and albies.

go look at the Angels farm system! it's so barren their top 5 might not make anyone in the top 25's top 20.

[nsacpi]

I'll make my point one more way. Joe Morgan and Ryne Sandburg were Hall of Fame second basemen. They had a lot of defensive value at second. My point is if they had the arm to play short and played there for the bulk of their careers, their value would have been even higher.