I posted it in the other Boston grabs Pomeranz thread but Happ seems like a good target, plus some other pieces. The cubs are about the only folks that can spare position players, and could use the pitching.
I posted it in the other Boston grabs Pomeranz thread but Happ seems like a good target, plus some other pieces. The cubs are about the only folks that can spare position players, and could use the pitching.
Ivermectin Man
I wouldn't mind Eloy Jimenez for JT even straight up.Originally Posted by Tapate50
Tapate50 (07-15-2016)
That's not a bad package but I'd hold out for one more player ranked somewhere in the 5-10 range in their system.
I'd go get McCann. Let McCann and Flowers platoon until Cumberland is ready to assume the duties. McCann would be great for a young staff as well. He's a big target with good pitch framing ability. He calls a good game.
Where would Happ play in Atlanta? Right now, he is a 2nd baseman. There were some projections that he could move to CF, but Happ really isn't a guy that I'm interested in trading Julio to get.
Lucroy is 30. Option year in 2017 is his age 31 season. My guess is he would want at least a four year deal beyond that. So we are talking about an extension covering his ages 32-35 seasons. Maybe age 36 as well.
McCann's deal goes through his age 35 season as well with the vesting option.
So both deals take us through a period when catchers are declining. Lucroy is somewhat better right now imo. The vesting option gives some protection if McCann goes into steep decline or suffers a major injury before 2019. The big difference is that I suspect the Brewers would have a much higher asking price than the Yankees would. This would probably tip the scales in favor of getting McCann, assuming both are made available.
3rd?
Ivermectin Man
If we got Happ I'd assume he'd be in LF. So I'm not giving up a JT for him. If they wanted some depth I'd give up Jenkins or Blair.
50PoundHead (07-15-2016), KB21 (07-15-2016)
That would be my thought as well. It would have to be Happ plus another good prospect for me to trade Teheran to the Cubs.
I'd love Lucroy and would be a really nice hitter in our lineup for 3-4 years. He'd take us through the promised land! Lol
Mac, Severino, and Andujar? Jimenez or Ian Happ straight-up?
Where's the "close-to-ready MOR bat" in those? Don't get me wrong, those are talented players, but the trade bug has bitten some of us a little too hard IMO. Those kinds of trades strike me as rather panicky deals that would be made simply for the sake of trading to make it look like you're doing something.
Dustin Peterson (Age 21 in AA, 50 power) - .276/.337/.420/.756, 24 2Bs, 1 3B, 8 HRs, 59 RBIs
Happ (Age 21 in AA, 50 power) - .313/.408/.487/.895, 21 2Bs, 3 3Bs, 9 HRs, 53 RBIs
The "upgrade" from Peterson to Happ is worth Julio Teheran? On what planet? Happ's off to a hot start in Tennessee, sure, but if you're going to trade Julio for marginal upgrades we couldn't do better? Why not just call Cashman and say you'll take Gary Sanchez? Wouldn't that be a bigger upgrade over what we have coming than Happ over Peterson? Why not ask for Aaron Judge rather than Happ if you're looking for a legitimate power threat? If you don't think Happ's ceiling is as a 30 bomb guy, wouldn't we be better with 15-20 from Peterson in LF with Julio on the mound?
If Julio's value is arguably a Top 20 guy, a Top 50 guy, and a throw-in, how do we get to these offers? Teams that would loosely have the prospects that would "fit" would be:
Rockies - Dahl, Jeff Hoffman, and Tom Murphy (I'd take in a heartbeat BTW)
Yankees - Judge, Sanchez, and Andujar (would probably take as well)
Cubs - Happ, Jimenez, and Jeimer Candelario (sure, why not?)
Astros - Francis Marte, Kyle Tucker, and J. D. Davis or Derek Fisher (meh)
Rangers - Brinson, Luis Ortiz, and Ryan Cordell (intriguing)
Dodgers - Jose DeLeon, Alex Verdugo, and Starling Heredia (also intriguing - for me)
I just think anything short of those types of offers for Julio would mean you're "settling" and accepting quantity over quality. There are significant questions about many of the players listed above even with those offers. If someone's not willing to offer a bat who could figure significantly into our lineup next spring or offer multiple players with solid upside, I'll keep Julio TYVM.
Has there EVER been a statement and question a certain someone should absolutely never have made and asked publicly more than...
Kinda pathetic to see yourself as a message board knight in shining armor. How impotent does someone have to be in real life to resort to playing hero on a message board?
KB21 (07-15-2016)
I like that idea from someone here to trade Vizcaino and for Randall Grichuk. We can trade for Lucroy and try to sign Josh Reddick and Martin Prado during the free agent period.
Line up:
Ozzie Albies
Dansby Swanson
Freddie Freeman
Randal Grichuk
Jonathan Lucroy
Josh Reddick
Martin Prado
Pitcher
Ender Inciarte
This is such a weird post.
I suggested Happ would be the main piece, not the whole enchilada. I don't have the free time to pour through the Cubbies system and put together A B and C prospect package I'd like. I was looking for a blocked high end prospect, that a team like Chicago could part with. A target if you'd prefer to call it that.
Who is to say we don't have Peterson in LF and Happ at 3rd? Happ in LF and Peterson in RF with Inciarte on the move (more return!?) I just read a scouting report on Happ where he could be a 20\20 guy? Who doesn't need those?
I guess my overriding point is don't take an open ended post as the gospel and jump on top of it. It would help you avoid the snarky back and forths with others on here you seem to find yourself in quite often.
And I don't hold Judge in such high esteem. I am not familiar with the NYY system, but they would likely need to dig deep other than Judge. He doesn't strike me as a NL Player.
Last edited by Tapate50; 07-15-2016 at 12:52 PM.
Ivermectin Man
I'd also like to point out, that even though position players are attractive assets, having them come up and struggle mightily can pigeon hole value. These high end players can bottom out and its a risk for the dealing team as well. No one is a lock other than Moncada etc...
Two years ago, we would have drooled over getting Puig back in a deal, but right now we have his doppleganger as a 4th OF.
Ivermectin Man
The most likely suitor for Teheran and Viz is probably now the Rangers. The return would have to be Brinson and Profar.
Brinson is a top 20 prospect, RHed, and should fill a long term need in the OF. He has had a rough year due to a left shoulder strain, but he has started hitting again now that he is healthy. The AA lineup would have Albies, Swanson and Brinson at the top, and that would be fun to watch.
Profar is currently without a position for the Rangers after they extended Beltre, so he would fit in well at 3B. At worst he would be a super utility guy under control for 4 more years. Everyone knows he was a blue chip prospect that had major arm issues, so he could be a buy-low candidate.
Anyways, any trade involving Teheran to the Rangers starts with Brinson as the return.
clvclv (07-15-2016)
speaking of Cubs and trade partners. the Cubs picked up discarded Brian Matusz after the Braves released him. He is a lefty and working his way to the big club. has 12Ks in 8 innings in the minors. One of the more head scratching moments this year was just releasing him.. One more lefty arm that could possibly be trade fodder..
I brought up the Teheran for McCann, Severino, Andujar trade because I was listening to MLB on Sirius early this AM and they were talking about how the Yankees were open to moving Severino now since he has regressed from last year. My first thought was he's 22. My second thought was that he was fantastic last year as a 21 YO and if he has a chance to get back to that then someone has a bargain.
So, I took Coppy's comments of wanting a catcher, mixed in the fact that then new park is next year and the Braves brass at least want to build a perception to mollify the great unwashed, added in a splash of triumphant return for a beloved Brave and came up with McCann. I added Severino who the Yanks would be selling low (Severino was probably worth more than Teheran by himself after the 2015 season) on then looked at their system for a high upside guy who is a bit away but plays a need position for the Braves (Andujar). I don't think you can pry away Judge as part of a package like that. Sanchez will be catching for the Yanks. As a fourth prospect in the deal you might could ask for Dustin Fowler or Leonardo Molina.
That doesn't give you the immediate bats the Braves have discussed outside of McCann. But getting McCann does a number of things in itself. With a McCann/Flowers combo you've got good veteran leadership who can handle young pitching and combined will hit you in the .250 range, .750OPS with 30 HR. It also creates the narrative that the Braves can build on moving into the new park..."the prodigal son returns...blah, blah, blah" which Braves management appears to feel they need.
If you can turn Severino around, and I don't see why that shouldn't be very do-able out of the NY spotlights and the AL, then you likely have a pitcher with more or equal upside as Teheran.
Andujar gives you a 21YO third base prospect in AA who slots between Ruiz and Riley (and is probably better than both) who can learn first hand to work with Swanson and Albies and be ready late 2017, early 2018.
Everything else is gravy.
The Yankees don't give up any of their "headline" prospects. They move McCann and his money and open the way for Sanchez. The cornerstone of the trade is Severino, who their fans have turned on.
IF you keep Freeman, which I'm on record as wanting to trade, then next year looks like:
C: McCann/Flowers
1B: Freeman
2B: Peterson early Albies late
SS: Probably d'Arnaud or Infante early Swanson late
3B: Becham/Garcia early Ruiz late
CF: Inciarte/Smith
RF: Markakis/Inciarte
LF: Maybe Carlos Beltran on a one or two year deal
SP: Severino, Folty, Wisler, Jaime Garcia (FA sign), Jake Peavy (FA Sign) - I've got Garcia in there as a lefty in the mix, I've got Peavy as a veteran #5 who can help the young guys some
RP: Withrow, Krol, Simmons, Cervenka, Jenkins, Alvarez, Cabrera, Winkler
I would prefer Brinson and Gallo. I view Gallo a little like Chris Davis, another big power, big SO Texas product. Gallo is never going to hit .300 and he's going to K a lot, maybe a whole lot. However, he does look like he's going to be a 40+HR guy who is going to sit in the .800 plus OPS range.
Its not often that someone like Chris Davis is successful... with his strikeout rake he just screams bust... I cannot get on the Gallo train no matter how hard I squint. Profar has to be in any deal from Texas... he was the number 1 prospect in baseball, he's finally healthy, and he's hitting great... Gallo's value is just about to start going down and down... also think Brinson could be a big bust.
Even Chris Davis' minor league strikeout rates weren't nearly as high as Gallo's
Last edited by zbhargrove; 07-15-2016 at 03:11 PM.
Astros just signed Cuban 3B for 47M....should be ready in a few weeks.
Hmmmm
Ivermectin Man
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