Think it's time to put him up there with Clemens, Maddux, Pedro, and Johnson. Certainly the best pitcher since those 4. Looking at ERA- Kershaw will have 4 seasons in the top 36 since WW2. Maddux has 4, Clemens has 3, Pedro has 5, and Johnson has 3. And his 2013 and 2014 seasons are the best back to back seasons ever after Maddux's 94/95 season and Pedro's 99/00 season.
Too bad he got hurt this year. Could have been the best season ever for a starting pitcher.
thank you weso1!
Maybe. That designation still goes to Pedro right now. Kershaw certainly has the talent to duplicate it but it's just so hard to be that good every single time out.Originally Posted by weso1
It definitely goes to Pedro because of the injury, but Kershaw's K/BB ratio is double that of Pedro's in 2000. Hard to ignore that.
thank you weso1!
It's pretty much impossible to duplicate Pedro given the current offensive climate. For example, to duplicate Pedro's 2000 ERA+ of 291, Kershaw would have had to put up an ERA of about 1.15 this year.
Pedro put up a WAR of 9.5 to almost 12 in 99-00. Kershaw's best is about 8 and even if he's kept up what he was doing this year, he wouldn't have quite gotten to Pedro.
Last edited by smootness; 08-12-2016 at 10:52 AM.
I mean that is insane. No doubt about that. Check out FIP-. Kershaw is at 41 this year which is incredible. Pedro's 1999 season was 31. The era matters and Pedro pitched in the AL East during the steroid era. Likely the worst pitching environment ever outside of pitching at peak Coors. Then you have things like his 2000 season which is the best ERA- season ever. A year where he posted a sub 2 ERA when nobody else in the AL was sub 3. Peak Pedro is the best this game has ever seen.
weso1 (08-12-2016)
Not only was no one else sub 3, very few were even sub 4. Hudson was 2nd in CY voting that year with an ERA of about 4.15.
Wait, I thought if you had 2 ace seasons in a row at a young age you were already considered a future hall of famer.
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Little Thethe Nov 19, 2020.
Little bit of a difference between two ace seasons and two all-time great seasons.
I was talking about Maddux, people here think he was already seen a future first ballot hall of famer when he was a cub.
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Little Thethe Nov 19, 2020.
Put him up with Johan Santana if his back isn't better
Greg Maddux was the best pitcher of all time. I think if he pitched in any other era besides the steroid era that his numbers would be absolutely absurb, like they already weren't when he was going against cheaters.
Hyperbole much? He was seen as an ace pitcher because he was one. Ace pitcher =/= HOFer
More like Koufax. Kershaw could retire today and he would be in the HOF.
I would agree. He is #4 all-time in WAR for pitchers and #2 for since WW2. Only Clemens is ahead of him and while I think Clemens is a top 10 pitcher he certainly benefited the last half of his career from PED's. To me Maddux is the clear #1 guy. Perfect combination of excellence with longevity.
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