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Thread: Why does Russia want The Rump to be POTUS so badly?

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    Anytime Now Frankie...
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    Why does Russia want The Rump to be POTUS so badly?

    Is it because they feel he owes them thru business deals that he would be in their pocket? Is it because they feel he would be easily manipulated and an embarrassment to the US? Maybe they feel he would be easier to goad into WWIII? I don't know but it is certainly is concerning. Certainly isn't his character. Which that would be no big deal. We have only had two Presidents of high character in my lifetime. Those two being Carter and Obama.

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    I <3 Ron Paul + gilesfan sturg33's Avatar
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    LOL what are you basing this off?

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    Anytime Now Frankie...
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    Which part?

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    I <3 Ron Paul + gilesfan sturg33's Avatar
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    The part about Russia wanting him to win

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    Anytime Now Frankie...
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    If you don't realize what I am referring to you have either have ignored all the hacking stories or you haven't watched the news.

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    Oh... you mean the government got exposed of corruption from wikileaks, and so they blame Russia - and I'm supposed to believe them? Remember the corruption they were just exposed of?

    LOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by VirginiaBrave View Post
    If you don't realize what I am referring to you have either have ignored all the hacking stories or you haven't watched the news.
    The gullibility here is so tragic.

    Do you know what happened in Syria last week between the United States and Russia?

    Did you know that Russia also announced last week they were backing away from nuclear treaties signed with the United States?

    Do you know what happened today between Turkey and Russia?

    Nevermind. Let's just chalk it up to Trump being a Russian patsy. Because that makes so much sense, and the year is 1985 and Red Russia is out to eat our babies, and our Democratic leaders aren't trying to sweep failed foreign policy under the rug in an election year.
    Last edited by Hawk; 10-10-2016 at 08:34 PM.

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    if my thought dreams could be seen goldfly's Avatar
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    Russia govnt falsified an email. Then Trump recited the falsified email at a rally. Only those two knew it. How?

    http://www.newsweek.com/vladimir-put...sputnik-508635

    This false story was only reported by the Russian controlled agency. So how did Donald Trump end up advancing the same falsehood put out by Putin’s mouthpiece?

    At a rally in Wilkes Barre, Pennsylvania, Trump spoke while holding a document in his hand. He told the assembled crowd that it was an email from Blumenthal, whom he called “sleazy Sidney.”

    “This just came out a little while ago,’’ Trump said. “I have to tell you this.” And then he read the words from my article.

    “He’s now admitting they could have done something about Benghazi,’’ Trump said, dropping the document to the floor. “This just came out a little while ago.”

    The crowd booed and chanted, “Lock her up!”


    This is not funny. It is terrifying. The Russians engage in a sloppy disinformation effort and, before the day is out, the Republican nominee for president is standing on a stage reciting the manufactured story as truth. How did this happen? Who in the Trump campaign was feeding him falsehoods straight from the Kremlin?
    Last edited by goldfly; 10-11-2016 at 03:36 AM.
    "If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin. It is a very great mistake to imagine that the object of loyalty is the authority and interest of one individual man, however dignified by the applause or enriched by the success of popular actions. Samuel Adams

    "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act" George Orwell

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    if my thought dreams could be seen goldfly's Avatar
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    I am curious when we can start talking about bringing up possible treason charges with the way this is looking between Trump and Russia
    "If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin. It is a very great mistake to imagine that the object of loyalty is the authority and interest of one individual man, however dignified by the applause or enriched by the success of popular actions. Samuel Adams

    "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act" George Orwell

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    I remember when Goldy admired Assange... now that he's taking down his hero HRC he is a hater. Sad

  11. #11
    if my thought dreams could be seen goldfly's Avatar
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    have i commented on assange in anyway this year?

    honestly, don't think i have but i am sure that won't stop you from trying to make some point or ignoring the actual content of the newsweek link
    "If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin. It is a very great mistake to imagine that the object of loyalty is the authority and interest of one individual man, however dignified by the applause or enriched by the success of popular actions. Samuel Adams

    "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act" George Orwell

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    https://theintercept.com/2016/10/11/...s-putin-plots/

    MORE INSIDIOUS AND SUBTLE, but even worse, was what Newsweek and its Clinton-adoring writer Kurt Eichenwald did last night. What happened – in reality, in the world of facts – was extremely trivial. One of the emails in the second installment of the WikiLeaks/Podesta archive – posted yesterday – was from Sidney Blumenthal to Podesta. The sole purpose of Blumenthal’s email was to show Podesta one of Eichenwald’s endless series of Clinton-exonerating articles, this one about Benghazi. So in the body of the email to Podesta, Blumenthal simply pasted the link and the full contents of the article. Although the purpose of Eichenwald’s article (like everything he says and does) was to defend Clinton, one paragraph in the middle acknowledged that one minor criticism of Clinton on Benghazi is possibly rational.

    Once WikiLeaks announced that this second email batch was online, many news organizations (including the Intercept, along with the NYT and AP) began combing through them to find relevant information and then published articles about them. One such story was published by Sputnik, the Russian government’s international outlet similar to RT, which highlighted that Blumenthal email. But the Sputnik story inaccurately attributed the text of the Newsweek article to Blumenthal, thus suggesting that one of Clinton’s closest advisors had expressed criticism of her on Benghazi. Sputnik quickly removed the article once Eichenwald pointed out that the words were his, not Blumethal’s. Then, in his campaign speech last night, Trump made reference to the Sputnik article (hours after it was published and spread on social media), claiming (obviously inaccurately) that even Blumenthal had criticized Clinton on Benghazi.

    That’s all that happened. There is zero suggestion in the article, let alone evidence, that any WikiLeaks email was doctored: it wasn’t. It was just Sputnik misreporting the email. Once Sputnik realized that its article misattributed the text to Blumenthal, it took it down. It’s not hard to imagine how a rushed, careless Sputnik staffer could glance at that email and fail to realize that Blumethal was forwarding Eichenwald’s article rather than writing it himself. And while nobody knows how this erroneous Sputnik story made its way to Trump for him to reference in his speech, it’s very easy to imagine how a Trump staffer on a shoddy, inept campaign – which has previously cited InfoWars and white supremacist sites among others – would have stumbled into a widely-shared Sputnik story that had been published hours earlier on the internet and then passed it along to Trump for him to highlight, without realizing the reasons to be skeptical.

    In any event, based on the available evidence, this is a small embarrassment for Trump: he cited an erroneous story from a non-credible Russian outlet, so it’s worth noting. But that’s not what happened. Eichenwald, with increasing levels of hysteria, manically posted no fewer than 3 dozen tweets last night about his story, each time escalating his claims of what it proved. By the time he was done, he had misled large numbers of people into believing that he found proof that: a) the documents in the WikiLeaks archive were altered; b) Russia put forgeries into the WikiLeaks archive; 3) Sputnik knew about the WikiLeaks archive ahead of time, before it was posted online; 4) WikiLeaks coordinated the release of the documents with the Russian government; and 5) the Russian government and the Trump campaign coordinated to falsely attribute Eichenwald’s words to Blumenthal.

    In fact, Eichenwald literally has zero evidence for any of that. The point is not that his evidence for these propositions is inconclusive or unpersuasive; the point is that there is zero evidence for any of it. It’s all just conspiracy theorizing and speculation that he invented. Worse, the article, while hinting at these claims and encouraging readers to believe it, does not even expressly claim any of those things. Instead, Eichenwald’s increasingly unhinged tweets repeatedly inflated his insignificant story from what it was – a misattribution of an email by Sputnik that Trump repeated – into a five-alarm warning that an insidious Russian plot to subvert U.S. elections had been proven, with Trump and fake WikiLeaks documents at the center.
    Treasonous I tell you! Treasonous!

  13. #13
    A Chip Off the Old Rock Julio3000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    The gullibility here is so tragic.

    Do you know what happened in Syria last week between the United States and Russia?

    Did you know that Russia also announced last week they were backing away from nuclear treaties signed with the United States?

    Do you know what happened today between Turkey and Russia?

    Nevermind. Let's just chalk it up to Trump being a Russian patsy. Because that makes so much sense, and the year is 1985 and Red Russia is out to eat our babies, and our Democratic leaders aren't trying to sweep failed foreign policy under the rug in an election year.
    So just to get this on the record...

    You DON'T think that Russia is behind the hacks, and you DON'T think that Russia is trying to influence the election?

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    Clique Leader weso1's Avatar
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    Trump is kind of all over the place on almost every issue so it's kind of hard to pin him down, but if I'm remembering correctly he seems to want to let Russia take the lead on the Syrian issue. I think Putin would be pretty happy with that.
    From your favorite message board poster (me).

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    It's not so cut and dried.

    Has Russia been hacking? Yes. All over the world. Read yesterday that Russian hackers are being held responsible for attacks against TV5Monde in France - a hack so brutal that it almost took 10 cable channels off the air permanently. Why TV5Monde? British intelligence deduced, 'Because they can, they enjoy testing the waters and flexing their cyber-muscle.'

    So, yeah, I believe they are likely responsible for some of the information that Wikileaks has recently produced, but probably not all of it. Where I draw issue here is with the pejorative nature of claiming the hacks/leaks are 'influencing an election' ... especially when it is being conveniently framed to fit a ludicrous, conspiratorial narrative. If Russia is truly responsible, then Americans should be thanking the Kremlin for making the election process much more transparent that it has ever been before.

    For a nation that we supposedly 'crippled' with 'robust and effective' economic sanctions, the Russians have done a pretty good job of rubbing our faces in our own supposed moral authority and trouncing us at our own game in the Middle East.

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    Quote Originally Posted by weso1 View Post
    Trump is kind of all over the place on almost every issue so it's kind of hard to pin him down, but if I'm remembering correctly he seems to want to let Russia take the lead on the Syrian issue. I think Putin would be pretty happy with that.
    It's pretty easy to allow somebody to take the lead when they already command it.

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    A Chip Off the Old Rock Julio3000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    It's not so cut and dried.

    Has Russia been hacking? Yes. All over the world. Read yesterday that Russian hackers are being held responsible for attacks against TV5Monde in France - a hack so brutal that it almost took 10 cable channels off the air permanently. Why TV5Monde? British intelligence deduced, 'Because they can, they enjoy testing the waters and flexing their cyber-muscle.'

    So, yeah, I believe they are likely responsible for some of the information that Wikileaks has recently produced, but probably not all of it. Where I draw issue here is with the pejorative nature of claiming the hacks/leaks are 'influencing an election' ... especially when it is being conveniently framed to fit a ludicrous, conspiratorial narrative. If Russia is truly responsible, then Americans should be thanking the Kremlin for making the election process much more transparent that it has ever been before.

    For a nation that we supposedly 'crippled' with 'robust and effective' economic sanctions, the Russians have done a pretty good job of rubbing our faces in our own supposed moral authority and trouncing us at our own game in the Middle East.
    Can you elaborate on why that narrative is ludicrous, particularly in light of Russian influence and destabilization efforts ongoing in Europe?

    For a nation that we supposedly 'crippled' with 'robust and effective' economic sanctions, the Russians have done a pretty good job of rubbing our faces in our own supposed moral authority

    I'm not really sure what you're arguing here.

    Russia is in the middle of what looks to be at least a two-year-long recession. They're burning central cash reserves trying to meet budget shortfalls. I'll grant that has more to do with international energy markets than sanctions, but the sanctions certainly aren't helping. But I'm not sure what any of that has to do with rubbing faces in moral authority and playing—or NOT playing—the "game" in the Middle East.

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    There was an interesting interview with a Russian journalist on NPR Morning Edition. The gist of his remarks is that Russia may or not be hacking various US political sites, but hackers in the US routinely hack Russian sites. The Russian people seem to like Trump because he talks about Russia. Part of Putin may want Trump because of some opportunities that might exist to strengthen Russia's position, but at the same time, Trump is viewed as so unpredictable that any accord reached diplomatically would be in danger of being immediately ignored by Trump. I'll try to find the interview and link it.

    Russia is in bad shape, but the people there have lived through so much they probably don't care.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Julio3000 View Post
    Can you elaborate on why that narrative is ludicrous, particularly in light of Russian influence and destabilization efforts ongoing in Europe?
    What, specifically, are you referring to ... the Ukraine? Flying into NATO airspace / sending stealth subs into Stockholm harbor?

    I'm not really sure what you're arguing here.

    Russia is in the middle of what looks to be at least a two-year-long recession. They're burning central cash reserves trying to meet budget shortfalls. I'll grant that has more to do with international energy markets than sanctions, but the sanctions certainly aren't helping. But I'm not sure what any of that has to do with rubbing faces in moral authority and playing—or NOT playing—the "game" in the Middle East.
    Not so much an argument as an observation. We're supposedly this powerhouse of democracy and the world's model for effective governance, but Russia has done a pretty remarkable job pulling that curtain back and exposing our hypocrisy. I'm specifically referencing the collusion that went on within the DNC, but there's also a significant amount of revelatory information in the 2016 leaks, as a whole, which sheds a bright light on the less than upstanding elements of DC networking and power play. Again, if Russia was ultimately responsible. I think it's important to delineate between directly commissioned state sponsored acts and events which might have transpired as a result of routine digital warfare.

    Say what you will about Russia's economy, but the type of deficit spending they are engaged in right now is economically viable and pretty much exactly the same thing we've done to attempt to claw out of our own recession. They've tapped into the reserve fund for political purposes - there are major elections in 2018 and its just a ploy to avoid raising taxes. It's clearly not a long term solution. They seem to be doubling-down on oil rebounding, which is probably where the smart money is.

    Certainly our sanctions aren't helping, that should be a given, but the idea that they have somehow incapacitated the country is a falsehood. They were a brief headache which Putin saw as an opportunity to galvanize Russian popular support against Western influence (still a very raw issue in the aftermath of perestroika) and bolster confidence about the Crimean invasion. He then spun that same nationalist fervor into an aggressive (and so far successful) Middle East intervention which is parts business and 'security' oriented.

    And now they're supposedly throwing a little shade our way. So what? Turnabout is fair play. Who is being hurt?

    But this Manchurian candidate **** is pure, laughable fiction.
    Last edited by Hawk; 10-11-2016 at 04:49 PM.

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    Here's a link to the story I referenced in an earlier post from NPR's morning edition.

    Link: http://www.npr.org/2016/10/11/497487...-view-on-syria

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