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Thread: The Trump Presidency

  1. #2741
    A Chip Off the Old Rock Julio3000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thethe View Post
    And face a nightmare where all of a sudden tens of millions of people don't have healthcare? Are you serious?
    So Trump's day-one/hour-one rhetoric was wrong?

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    A Chip Off the Old Rock Julio3000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thethe View Post
    And face a nightmare where all of a sudden tens of millions of people don't have healthcare? Are you serious?
    Seriously, they've had years to consider this. What's the holdup?

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    Shift Leader thethe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julio3000 View Post
    Seriously, they've had years to consider this. What's the holdup?
    Because it's hard to fix a disaster. Especially when the disaster was pushed for years.
    Warm feelings guy!

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    if my thought dreams could be seen goldfly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julio3000 View Post
    Seriously, they've had years to consider this. What's the holdup?
    it's almost like all those times they tried to repeal it and knew it wasn't going to happen

    prove it was all political theatre and was just a waste of time and money
    "If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin. It is a very great mistake to imagine that the object of loyalty is the authority and interest of one individual man, however dignified by the applause or enriched by the success of popular actions.” Samuel Adams

    "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act" George Orwell

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    A Chip Off the Old Rock Julio3000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thethe View Post
    Because it's hard to fix a disaster. Especially when the disaster was pushed for years.
    Well, gosh, if it's such a disaster, it seems like getting rid of it immediately would do nothing but help he American people. Why hasn't that happened?

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    if my thought dreams could be seen goldfly's Avatar
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    Customs Agents Checked IDs Of Domestic Flight Passengers At JFK

    Customs and Border Protection agents met a domestic flight at John F. Kennedy Airport on Wednesday night and checked the IDs of every passenger on board, according to one traveler who documented the scene.

    The incident, which took place on Delta Flight 1583 from San Francisco, was atypical for both domestic flights—on which no identification is needed to exit the airport—and international flights, where identification is checked during a customs screening after deplaning.

    A spokesman for CBP told Gothamist that such checks are "not a new policy" and that it is "not unusual for us to assist our fellow law-enforcement agencies."

    CBP declined to comment on which agency it was working with on Wednesday, but said collaborative agencies might include Homeland Security, or any local or national law enforcement agency. The spokesman also said that CBP was seeking an individual, who, it turned out, was not on the flight. [CBP has since stated that the agents were assisting ICE in seeking a person with a removal order. See below for update.]

    Matt O'Rouke of Manhattan, 41, photographed two agents standing on either side of the plane entrance shortly after 8:30 p.m. on Wednesday, checking identification. He described the experience to Gothamist.

    "When we were getting out there were two customs agents," he recalled. "I don't think they had a clipboard or a list. I think they were just looking at everybody's ID.

    They did it really carefully. You could tell they weren't just looking for a name. They read my entire ID and looked at me the entire time. I was probably the tenth person off the plane, and they did the same for everyone in front of me."

    When the plane landed, O'Rouke said, a flight attendant announced over the intercom that all passengers should take out their identification.

    "The head flight attendant came on and said, 'Please have your papers ready' three or four times," O'Rouke recalled. Passengers then asked why papers were necessary on a domestic flight. "Someone corrected her and she said, 'Oh I mean photo IDs,'" he added. "To which people were kind of weirded out."

    "I flew almost 200,000 miles last year," O'Rouke said. "I've never had my ID checked getting off a domestic flight."

    Earlier this week, the Department of Homeland Security issued guidelines for CBP and Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) to implement President Donald Trump's immigration policy. The guidelines basically eliminate the concept of deportation priorities, leaving it up to ICE offices to decide who among the millions in the United States without a visa to go after.

    Jordan Wells, a staff attorney with the New York Civil Liberties Union, told Gothamist that this sort of behavior is not necessarily indicative of immigration enforcement. Border agents have been known to check IDs if they have reason to believe someone on the flight is on the FBI's wanted list, for example.

    But CBP's comment on the matter, he said, was not specific enough to determine whether Wednesday's searches were indeed typical, as the agency maintains.
    "CBP does not have carte blanche to detain people for questioning without suspicion just because they step off of a domestic flight within 100 miles of a border," he said.
    "It is not an always-and-everywhere police force, and any attempt to expand its operations beyond its authority would raise serious concerns."

    Ward Oliver, supervising attorney for the Immigration Law Unit at the Legal Aid Society, stressed that the incident seemed highly unusual, and consistent with the regime laid out in the new DHS memos.

    "I can't say that I've ever heard of this happening at Kennedy Airport before," he said. "To me it seems pretty clear to me what they are doing, in light of the order."
    He added that there has historically been legal precedent for agents to question individuals at checkpoints within 100 miles of the US border. JFK is within that 100 mile zone, "But it seems like an abuse [of that right] of it's in the airport on a domestic flight."

    Port Authority spokesman Scott Ladd deferred comment to Delta and CBP, saying, "This isn't our area or jurisdiction."

    Delta spokeswoman Elizabeth Wolf did not immediately comment on the incident.
    "If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin. It is a very great mistake to imagine that the object of loyalty is the authority and interest of one individual man, however dignified by the applause or enriched by the success of popular actions.” Samuel Adams

    "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act" George Orwell

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    if my thought dreams could be seen goldfly's Avatar
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    "If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin. It is a very great mistake to imagine that the object of loyalty is the authority and interest of one individual man, however dignified by the applause or enriched by the success of popular actions.” Samuel Adams

    "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act" George Orwell

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    It's OVER 5,000! 57Brave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thethe View Post
    He's just fulfilling campaign promises. Refreshing to have a politician do that.
    Matt ViserVerified account
    ‏@mviser

    Spicer on claim raids were a “military action”: “The president is using that as an adjective...It’s happening in a high degree of precision"

    ...................

    LOLGOP‏@LOLGOP 7m7 minutes ago

    LOLGOP Retweeted Matt Viser

    Why did he use the wrong word, which would suggest illegal U.S. military action in America? To illustrate precision, of course.
    “Reject the logic that says someone else’s gain necessitates my loss, and that my gain must come at the cost of another person.”

  11. #2749
    Shift Leader thethe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julio3000 View Post
    Well, gosh, if it's such a disaster, it seems like getting rid of it immediately would do nothing but help he American people. Why hasn't that happened?
    With all due respect sir I answered this question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by goldfly View Post
    Customs Agents Checked IDs Of Domestic Flight Passengers At JFK

    Customs and Border Protection agents met a domestic flight at John F. Kennedy Airport on Wednesday night and checked the IDs of every passenger on board, according to one traveler who documented the scene.

    The incident, which took place on Delta Flight 1583 from San Francisco, was atypical for both domestic flights—on which no identification is needed to exit the airport—and international flights, where identification is checked during a customs screening after deplaning.

    A spokesman for CBP told Gothamist that such checks are "not a new policy" and that it is "not unusual for us to assist our fellow law-enforcement agencies."

    CBP declined to comment on which agency it was working with on Wednesday, but said collaborative agencies might include Homeland Security, or any local or national law enforcement agency. The spokesman also said that CBP was seeking an individual, who, it turned out, was not on the flight. [CBP has since stated that the agents were assisting ICE in seeking a person with a removal order. See below for update.]

    Matt O'Rouke of Manhattan, 41, photographed two agents standing on either side of the plane entrance shortly after 8:30 p.m. on Wednesday, checking identification. He described the experience to Gothamist.

    "When we were getting out there were two customs agents," he recalled. "I don't think they had a clipboard or a list. I think they were just looking at everybody's ID.

    They did it really carefully. You could tell they weren't just looking for a name. They read my entire ID and looked at me the entire time. I was probably the tenth person off the plane, and they did the same for everyone in front of me."

    When the plane landed, O'Rouke said, a flight attendant announced over the intercom that all passengers should take out their identification.

    "The head flight attendant came on and said, 'Please have your papers ready' three or four times," O'Rouke recalled. Passengers then asked why papers were necessary on a domestic flight. "Someone corrected her and she said, 'Oh I mean photo IDs,'" he added. "To which people were kind of weirded out."

    "I flew almost 200,000 miles last year," O'Rouke said. "I've never had my ID checked getting off a domestic flight."

    Earlier this week, the Department of Homeland Security issued guidelines for CBP and Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) to implement President Donald Trump's immigration policy. The guidelines basically eliminate the concept of deportation priorities, leaving it up to ICE offices to decide who among the millions in the United States without a visa to go after.

    Jordan Wells, a staff attorney with the New York Civil Liberties Union, told Gothamist that this sort of behavior is not necessarily indicative of immigration enforcement. Border agents have been known to check IDs if they have reason to believe someone on the flight is on the FBI's wanted list, for example.

    But CBP's comment on the matter, he said, was not specific enough to determine whether Wednesday's searches were indeed typical, as the agency maintains.
    "CBP does not have carte blanche to detain people for questioning without suspicion just because they step off of a domestic flight within 100 miles of a border," he said.
    "It is not an always-and-everywhere police force, and any attempt to expand its operations beyond its authority would raise serious concerns."

    Ward Oliver, supervising attorney for the Immigration Law Unit at the Legal Aid Society, stressed that the incident seemed highly unusual, and consistent with the regime laid out in the new DHS memos.

    "I can't say that I've ever heard of this happening at Kennedy Airport before," he said. "To me it seems pretty clear to me what they are doing, in light of the order."
    He added that there has historically been legal precedent for agents to question individuals at checkpoints within 100 miles of the US border. JFK is within that 100 mile zone, "But it seems like an abuse [of that right] of it's in the airport on a domestic flight."

    Port Authority spokesman Scott Ladd deferred comment to Delta and CBP, saying, "This isn't our area or jurisdiction."

    Delta spokeswoman Elizabeth Wolf did not immediately comment on the incident.
    but the emails
    “Reject the logic that says someone else’s gain necessitates my loss, and that my gain must come at the cost of another person.”

  13. #2751
    A Chip Off the Old Rock Julio3000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thethe View Post
    With all due respect sir I answered this question.
    So which one of the posited replacement plans is going to address those issues of coverage and affordability? Surely there's an answer to this, right? Have there not been years to sort this out?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Julio3000 View Post
    So which one of the posited replacement plans is going to address those issues of coverage and affordability? Surely there's an answer to this, right? Have there not been years to sort this out?
    I don't understand why there is a need for a "replacement"

    What was there before it? Have things gotten worse? Yes.

    When there is a fire, you extinguish it.. you don't then replace it with a new fire

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    A Chip Off the Old Rock Julio3000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sturg33 View Post
    I don't understand why there is a need for a "replacement"

    What was there before it? Have things gotten worse? Yes.

    When there is a fire, you extinguish it.. you don't then replace it with a new fire
    So you'd be in favor of accelerating costs and less widespread coverage. OK. So your solution is repeal w/ no replacement?

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    if my thought dreams could be seen goldfly's Avatar
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    @Julio3000 it's a disaster cause it got millions of people insurance. Duh, it's pretty simple
    "If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin. It is a very great mistake to imagine that the object of loyalty is the authority and interest of one individual man, however dignified by the applause or enriched by the success of popular actions.” Samuel Adams

    "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act" George Orwell

  18. #2755
    A Chip Off the Old Rock Julio3000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldfly View Post
    @Julio3000 it's a disaster cause it got millions of people insurance. Duh, it's pretty simple
    Higher costs + more coverage < even higher costs and less coverage. Got it.

    If that's where you want to be, go ahead, I guess . . . but it seems like people are pretty hesitant to actually blow up the least bad solution for the most people (i.e. the ACA).

    If, as sturg says, there's no need for a replacement, I wonder why the majority party hasn't just repealed the ACA already. Anyone?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Julio3000 View Post
    So you'd be in favor of accelerating costs and less widespread coverage. OK. So your solution is repeal w/ no replacement?
    Why would we have higher costs? When you remove the mandate and pre-existing conditions, cost will come down.

    If repealing means higher costs, then why have costs gone up so much since it was put in place?

    Not following your logic

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    Quote Originally Posted by goldfly View Post
    @Julio3000 it's a disaster cause it got millions of people insurance. Duh, it's pretty simple
    Sure - if you want to look at something completely in a vacuum devoid of all context, then you're right! But when we do that, we get things like "women make 77% of what men make" type of arguments, which as you know is devoid of all logic and reason

    Afterall, we could always nuke a city, pay to re-build, and then brag about all the extra jobs we created

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    Quote Originally Posted by Julio3000 View Post

    If, as sturg says, there's no need for a replacement, I wonder why the majority party hasn't just repealed the ACA already. Anyone?
    Because it's bad politics.

    When you have the inept Bernie Sanders screaming that Republicans want to kick millions off health care, it's a bad look.

    Just like with social security, it's bad politics... but it's not bad math

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    A Chip Off the Old Rock Julio3000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sturg33 View Post
    Why would we have higher costs? When you remove the mandate and pre-existing conditions, cost will come down.

    If repealing means higher costs, then why have costs gone up so much since it was put in place?

    Not following your logic
    Since the increase in premiums during the ACA years have been less than the increase in premiums immediately-pre-ACA, I'm pretty comfortable with that. You disagree?

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  26. #2760
    Very Flirtatious, but Doubts What Love Is. jpx7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julio3000 View Post
    Seriously, they've had years to consider this. What's the holdup?
    It was all grandstanding and political posturing. They obviously never thought they'd actually be in position to "repeal&replace", and now they're caught scrambling, junk-in-mitts.
    "For all his tattooings he was on the whole a clean, comely looking cannibal."

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