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Thread: The Trump Presidency

  1. #5381
    I <3 Ron Paul + gilesfan sturg33's Avatar
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    Let's read this headline slowly from the New York Times

    LINK: Colleges Celebrate Diversity With Separate Commencements

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    Very Flirtatious, but Doubts What Love Is. jpx7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sturg33 View Post
    Let's read this headline slowly from the New York Times

    LINK: Colleges Celebrate Diversity With Separate Commencements
    This is why the real left eschews blanket identitarian measures (which are also frequently convenient distractions deployed by institutional neoliberals*) in favor of actually treating the historical and material causes of suffering in society. More division doesn't really serve us, even if the culture at large does have plenty of sins for which it could atone.

    * A good example of this is Clinton's reinventing herself as some social-justice Wonder Woman cum Khaleesi, after a career of "super predators" and bloating the prison systems and using unpaid prison servants in her Governor's Mansion; yet somehow Sanders was portrayed as the candidate that wouldn't help minorities because he happened to live in Vermont.
    "For all his tattooings he was on the whole a clean, comely looking cannibal."

  3. #5383
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpx7 View Post
    This is why the real left eschews blanket identitarian measures (which are also frequently convenient distractions deployed by institutional neoliberals*) in favor of actually treating the historical and material causes of suffering in society. More division doesn't really serve us, even if the culture at large does have plenty of sins for which it could atone.

    * A good example of this is Clinton's reinventing herself as some social-justice Wonder Woman cum Khaleesi, after a career of "super predators" and bloating the prison systems and using unpaid prison servants in her Governor's Mansion; yet somehow Sanders was portrayed as the candidate that wouldn't help minorities because he happened to live in Vermont.
    Sanders' problem - in my opinion - is he is a socialist, and also a hypocrite.

    I'm reminded as I read letters from Venezuelans about their current day-to-day and it's horrifying what their going through.

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    Very Flirtatious, but Doubts What Love Is. jpx7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sturg33 View Post
    Sanders' problem - in my opinion - is he is a socialist, and also a hypocrite.

    I'm reminded as I read letters from Venezuelans about their current day-to-day and it's horrifying what their going through.
    Speaking as someone who hopes for the eventual (peaceful) downfall of capitalism: Sanders is not a socialist. As for hypocrisy—he's no more a hypocrite than your boy Ron Paul (and probably only slightly more than you or me, for that matter). For an electabibility standpoint, Sanders' problem was that he was constantly undercut by his own putative party throughout the nomination process.

    As for the ghost of Chavez (about whom I have mixed feelings), and the general Bolivarian movement (about which I am positively disposed)—well Venezuela's current crisis is a lot more complex than just "lol socialism", though I'm not sure it's worth digging into that with you, given your ideological predispositions.
    "For all his tattooings he was on the whole a clean, comely looking cannibal."

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    A Chip Off the Old Rock Julio3000's Avatar
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    Yeah, there's a lot, I mean a looooooooot,
    that has to go into any discussion of Venezuela, and it goes well beyond LOL socialism, which is sturg33's go-to take.

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    Seems like the general consensus from the Comey hearing is there really was nothing that vindicating for either side to grasp onto.

    Trump doesn't emerge from it looking good, but apparently not guilty. Both sides have ample ammunition for their talking points and the world will continue to spin on its head.

    I'll say this though. Hopefully this is the last relevant moment of James Comey's public life. That guy through his own narcissism (or ignorance, not sure what's worse) made a lot of mistakes the past 12 months.

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    Hah...HRC faced her accusers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chop2chip View Post
    Seems like the general consensus from the Comey hearing is there really was nothing that vindicating for either side to grasp onto.

    Trump doesn't emerge from it looking good, but apparently not guilty. Both sides have ample ammunition for their talking points and the world will continue to spin on its head.

    I'll say this though. Hopefully this is the last relevant moment of James Comey's public life. That guy through his own narcissism (or ignorance, not sure what's worse) made a lot of mistakes the past 12 months.
    Comey doesn't testify until tomorrow.

    No one has even attempted to answer .....
    Why did Trump go to so much trouble to squash the investigation
    ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jpx7 View Post
    Speaking as someone who hopes for the eventual (peaceful) downfall of capitalism
    If you want to end peaceful trading of commodities and services between two voluntary entities, then it's going to be real tough to do so without the use of force. Socialism can't exist without a very serious threat of deadly force. It interests me when people are anti war, but support forced distribution.

    One thing that might be nice is that if jpx7 wants to live in a socialist state he can choose to do so, and if weso1 and sturg want to live in a free economic society we should be allowed to.

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    It's OVER 5,000! Runnin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 57Brave View Post
    Comey doesn't testify until tomorrow.

    No one has even attempted to answer .....
    Why did Trump go to so much trouble to squash the investigation
    ?
    Comey vs Comby

    Why is Comey releasing statements before he testifies? This is shaping up to be another nothing burger.
    FFF - BB, BB, 2B, HR, 2B, HR, 1B, BB, BB, 1B, BB, BB, HR

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    Quote Originally Posted by weso1 View Post
    If you want to end peaceful trading of commodities and services between two voluntary entities, then it's going to be real tough to do so without the use of force. Socialism can't exist without a very serious threat of deadly force. It interests me when people are anti war, but support forced distribution.

    One thing that might be nice is that if jpx7 wants to live in a socialist state he can choose to do so, and if weso1 and sturg want to live in a free economic society we should be allowed to.
    The lines between socialism and capitalism in America are blurred already. The rich and powerful who run the country are all for dipping deep into the communal purses when it suits them. And they do it often.
    FFF - BB, BB, 2B, HR, 2B, HR, 1B, BB, BB, 1B, BB, BB, HR

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    Quote Originally Posted by Runnin View Post
    Comey vs Comby

    Why is Comey releasing statements before he testifies? This is shaping up to be another nothing burger.
    Get ahead of the promised 3 AM twitter storm.
    Only in the respect the (R) party is willing to give Trump a pass on admitted obstruction of justice
    As long as they get repeal and tax breaks
    Saul Good Man

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    Quote Originally Posted by Julio3000 View Post
    Yeah, there's a lot, I mean a looooooooot,
    that has to go into any discussion of Venezuela, and it goes well beyond LOL socialism, which is sturg33's go-to take.
    The timeline of the Venezuela downfall is well documented.

    It wasn't too long ago where Mr. Sanders was touting them as a model for America to follow

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    Quote Originally Posted by weso1 View Post
    If you want to end peaceful trading of commodities and services between two voluntary entities, then it's going to be real tough to do so without the use of force. Socialism can't exist without a very serious threat of deadly force. It interests me when people are anti war, but support forced distribution.

    One thing that might be nice is that if jpx7 wants to live in a socialist state he can choose to do so, and if weso1 and sturg want to live in a free economic society we should be allowed to.
    That's exactly right... Socialism requires force and the abandonment of individual liberty. How anyone can support it just baffles me

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    Some embarrassing interviews with the mayor of London. What a complete joke.

  17. #5396
    Very Flirtatious, but Doubts What Love Is. jpx7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sturg33 View Post
    That's exactly right... Socialism requires force and the abandonment of individual liberty. How anyone can support it just baffles me
    Morality, mostly. Unfettered capitalism is immoral.

    Quote Originally Posted by weso1 View Post
    If you want to end peaceful trading of commodities and services between two voluntary entities, then it's going to be real tough to do so without the use of force. Socialism can't exist without a very serious threat of deadly force. It interests me when people are anti war, but support forced distribution.

    One thing that might be nice is that if jpx7 wants to live in a socialist state he can choose to do so, and if weso1 and sturg want to live in a free economic society we should be allowed to.
    Lol at "voluntary".
    "For all his tattooings he was on the whole a clean, comely looking cannibal."

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    Quote Originally Posted by jpx7 View Post
    Morality, mostly. Unfettered capitalism is immoral.
    What an absurd statement. True unfettered capitalism is the most moral economic system that exists. Two entities coming to a peaceful trade agreement. The only way you can make it immoral is to put quotes around the word voluntary. A lame stunt which ignores what capitalism truly is.

    You think shared distribution by force is the more moral system? You've got the gun pointed to my head.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thethe View Post
    Some embarrassing interviews with the mayor of London. What a complete joke.
    He's a piece of crap who should be held accountable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by weso1 View Post
    What an absurd statement. True unfettered capitalism is the most moral economic system that exists. Two entities coming to a peaceful trade agreement. The only way you can make it immoral is to put quotes around the word voluntary. A lame stunt which ignores what capitalism truly is.

    You think shared distribution by force is the more moral system? You've got the gun pointed to my head.
    Yes: I think more equitable distribution of resources is more moral than the consolidation of wealth to the wealthy. The only way you can make the latter seem moral is by throwing around the word "absurd" and not making any real and material argument.

    Capitalism has a gun to all our heads. We have no option but to participate, to sell our labor at whatever the holders of capital deem it's worth, and to rejoice in whatever scraps of the GDP trickle down to us. That's not freedom to me.
    "For all his tattooings he was on the whole a clean, comely looking cannibal."

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    Quote Originally Posted by jpx7 View Post
    Yes: I think more equitable distribution of resources is more moral than the consolidation of wealth to the wealthy. The only way you can make the latter seem moral is by throwing around the word "absurd" and not making any real and material argument.

    Capitalism has a gun to all our heads. We have no option but to participate, to sell our labor at whatever the holders of capital deem it's worth, and to rejoice in whatever scraps of the GDP trickle down to us. That's not freedom to me.
    I made two relevant arguments which you continue to ignore. Capitalism is an inherently peaceful economic system in it's true form and socialism in an inherently violent system. One requires a gun. How is it moral to hold a gun to my head?

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