The Trump Presidency

[Hawk]

He killed a 32-year-old white woman because he plowed his car into a multi-racial crowd of mostly lefty socialists who were marching in protest of the racism, white supremacy and genocidal imagery of the gathering.

It's not obscure. It's pretty obvious.

I guess the white civil rights activists killed in Mississippi in the 60s weren't killed in the name of white supremacy, huh?

So you are saying that the agenda of the people who organized the march was to kill "mostly lefty socialists who were marching in protest of the racism, white supremacy and genocidal imagery (lol) of the gathering"?

[Hawk]

Prerty sure in addition to hating minorities they also hate the white sympathizers.

They? You've got to be careful lumping these groups together.

[Hawk]

He ran into a throng of people, hitting several blacks, probably his targets. The white woman was too slow or unlucky.

So this was a racial thing?

[Hawk]

Great, we have a riot where an innocent is murdered and you are debating new sources !!
Tell us all what South Korean news sources reported

This is the typical diversion being referred to as "whataboutism"

Just a cautionary sidebar.

[Hawk]

Glad there are people here brave enough to remind us who the real enemy is, by properly denouncing pedantry and clickbait listicle journalism.

The slot for overzealous persecutor was already filled, with a waiting list.

[The Chosen One]

They? You've got to be careful lumping these groups together.

What groups?

The pictures show a United coalition of Confederate and Nazi sympathizers. I'm pretty sure their ideals crossover on most issues. From what I've read the last few years, white supremacist groups are starting to merge into one instead of having so many different organizations.

[The Chosen One]

When I asked senior WH official why Trump didn't condemn Cville Nazis, he said: "What about the leftist mob. Just as violent if not more so"

I mean our President can big dick tweet about North Korea, offer condolences to police officers, but he can't just straight up say I don't want these voters or Nazis.

i can't believe some here can't reasonably see the whataboutism false equivalence.

[nsacpi]

Although some of these groups may treat their political belief systems as seriously as a religion, they are not actors because of their religion. This is where I feel like the comparison you make misses the mark.

This will take us slightly off-topic, but one of the best books I've read in recent years is a biography of Stalin by Simon Sebag Montefiore (wish I had a name like that!). One of the things I got out of it was that although Stalin and the men who worked with him with were declared atheists, there was a quasi-religious fervor about their belief that they had seen the true light and had been annointed in some way to serve as the vanguard (sorry to sneak that word in) of their society. Radical Islamists are very similar in that regard. The similarity with neo-Nazis (at least its current incarnation in this country) is less strong. But some of it is there nonetheless.

[nsacpi]

I mean, is he a neo-Nazi or a white supremacist or a nationalist or a white nationalist (who he marched with - but they claim they don't know him) or an alt-righter or a far-righter or a Bircher or a Klansman or a Militiaman?

I'm curious, is it a distinction worth making which of these groups he is aligned with.

[sturg33]

My views on this...

1. The nazi protesters are truly "Deplorables"

2. They have a right to peacefully protest, and should be allowed to do so without violence

3. Antifa makes things worse

4. Trump, the GOP, and the Left should all denounce the protesters and the nazi movement immediately and without ambiguity

[nsacpi]

My views on this...

1. The nazi protesters are truly "Deplorables"

2. They have a right to peacefully protest, and should be allowed to do so without violence

3. Antifa makes things worse

4. Trump, the GOP, and the Left should all denounce the protesters and the nazi movement immediately and without ambiguity

I agree with you on the first three. But I think people who want to counter-demonstrate against the neo-Nazis should be praised (as long as they do so peacefully).

[sturg33]

I agree with you on the first three. But I think people who want to counter-demonstrate against the neo-Nazis should be praised (as long as they do so peacefully).

No argument from me...

[The Chosen One]

My views on this...

1. The nazi protesters are truly "Deplorables"

2. They have a right to peacefully protest, and should be allowed to do so without violence

3. Antifa makes things worse

4. Trump, the GOP, and the Left should all denounce the protesters and the nazi movement immediately and without ambiguity

Good on you.


While I don't agree with violence, the Nazi and Confederate Flags strike a serious chord of emotion for many. Certainly I don't think violence was needed but I also understand people lost family members to the war vs Nazi's and the Confederate Flag being a symbol for slavery and Jim Crow.

So yeah I didn't agree with violence but I can't say I'm surprised either. I mean the Nazi guys are the ones that brought riot gear and m16's to their "protest" "rally".

[57Brave]

My views on this...

1. The nazi protesters are truly "Deplorables"
yes

2. They have a right to peacefully protest, and should be allowed to do so without violence
People show up to peaceful rallies armed with shields and pepper spray . How does white nationalist and peaceful get into the same sentence. The term white nationalist is by nature and intent violent
3. Antifa makes things worse
see below

4. Trump, the GOP, and the Left should all denounce the protesters and the nazi movement immediately and without ambiguity
Trump won't. He doesn't apologize. That was his "charm"

worse ?

They went there to counter and challenge people with swastika's,Nazi salutes and Confederate flags
intent on intimidating minorities both racial and religious
In our history those ideologies were met with war

This non sense has been legitimized since the 08 election - about time someone stood up to these bullies.
Having said that -- my guess is the counter protest had more "reasonables" than the Unite the Right.
Just by definition

The key term here is anti facist .
Meaning that fascist had to come first

Remember when TParty ers spit on John Lewis and called him a n*gg*r ?

I don't recall any bothsideisms or calls for leaders of the (R) to denounce those people.
Actually there were (R) Congressman photographed laughing and giving speeches.

[57Brave]

Kyle Griffin‏Verified account @kylegriffin1

Clinton gave an entire speech a year ago on the "radical fringe" she said was taking over the GOP thanks to Trump.


this past week was what the 2016 election was about. Be it empty threats of nuclear attacks or the legitimization of shadow ( wink and nod) fascism
Not email servers or economic anxiety or even tax policy.
What kind of people we are

Maybe it is best we ripped the scab off -- I don't know
Time will tell

Go look at the picture Runnin put up this morning in the parallel thread

[sturg33]

Good on you.


While I don't agree with violence, the Nazi and Confederate Flags strike a serious chord of emotion for many. Certainly I don't think violence was needed but I also understand people lost family members to the war vs Nazi's and the Confederate Flag being a symbol for slavery and Jim Crow.

So yeah I didn't agree with violence but I can't say I'm surprised either. I mean the Nazi guys are the ones that brought riot gear and m16's to their "protest" "rally".

My girlfriend's (whom you met) grandfather was in the holocaust and and was in concentration camps - including Auschwitz - for 6 years. I know very well about the symbolism and the emotional outrage it can and should spark.

But the first amendment is there to protect controversial speech. It's not there so we can discuss the weather.

[Hawk]

This will take us slightly off-topic, but one of the best books I've read in recent years is a biography of Stalin by Simon Sebag Montefiore (wish I had a name like that!). One of the things I got out of it was that although Stalin and the men who worked with him with were declared atheists, there was a quasi-religious fervor about their belief that they had seen the true light and had been annointed in some way to serve as the vanguard (sorry to sneak that word in) of their society. Radical Islamists are very similar in that regard. The similarity with neo-Nazis (at least its current incarnation in this country) is less strong. But some of it is there nonetheless.

Echoes of Rasputin and the Tsars. If you look at how communist attitudes toward religion evolved from Marxism-Leninism to Stalinism, you see the state transform from outright shunning religion as an "opiate of the masses" to selectively administering that same opiate to manipulate and consolidate power over said masses. And that history is still being written; Putin's 'base' is significantly comprised of members of the Russian Orthodox Church (they call his ascension to power a miracle) and he often caters to them, most recently witnessed in the invasion of Crimea.

[sturg33]

worse ?

They went there to counter and challenge people with swastika's,Nazi salutes and Confederate flags
intent on intimidating minorities both racial and religious
In our history those ideologies were met with war

This non sense has been legitimized since the 08 election - about time someone stood up to these bullies.
Having said that -- my guess is the counter protest had more "reasonables" than the Unite the Right.
Just by definition

The key term here is anti facist .
Meaning that fascist had to come first

Remember when TParty ers spit on John Lewis and called him a n*gg*r ?

I don't recall any bothsideisms or calls for leaders of the (R) to denounce those people.
Actually there were (R) Congressman photographed laughing and giving speeches.

The majority of violent protests in this country are perpetrated from the left and groups like antifa. I know you refuse to denounce things like we see at Berkley, but most reasonable people can and do

[57Brave]

http://www.chopcountry.com/forums/sh...487#post421487

And with that right comes responsibility. When the authorities do not protect the innocent from people abusing that right, which was the case here -- like anything else the void will be filled..

Did you see Amash statements?
Good for him

[57Brave]

The majority of violent protests in this country are perpetrated from the left and groups like antifa. I know you refuse to denounce things like we see at Berkley, but most reasonable people can and do

This isn't right or left.

Tax policy, military spending, banking regulation are left and right issues.
And what was the initial issue at Berkley --- same thing ?
A pattern ?