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Thread: The Trump Presidency

  1. #17301
    A Chip Off the Old Rock Julio3000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    Says the guy who mic dropped after a half-baked emotional plea.

    I'll be over here looking for those 'relevant' mental professionals to inform my policy position.
    As a “policy position,” I’d go with the “zero-tolerance” doctrine combined with family separation is unwieldy, impractical, and bad policy besides. That it’s unenforceable is self-evident. That it’s needlesly cruel is broadly agreed upon. There’s no demonstrable upside and obvious downside. Obviously the powers that be ultimately agreed with that assessment. They’re now under court order to reunite these families, despite the fact that some parents have already been deported with their kids still in detention.

    But, again, it’s somehow impressive for you to still be defending this massively draconian yet still half-baked ****show. Weird hill to die on, IMO, but ok.

    I’d like to hear more about these “implementation flaws.” A couple thousand kids separated from their parents and put in baby-jail was a feature, not a bug—according to you, even: “it’s a tactic, folks.”

    So was it a flaw or a tactic? Read the accounts of these kids and their parents and own it, really.

    “Decades of psychological research show that children separated from their parents can suffer severe psychological distress, resulting in anxiety, loss of appetite, sleep disturbances, withdrawal, aggressive behavior and decline in educational achievement. The longer the parent and child are separated, the greater the child's symptoms of anxiety and depression become.“—American Psychological Association

    Totally worth it, I guess.

    Let’s file this with:

    The Iraq War was good, actually, and there totally were so WMD.

    Trump’s gonna be fine. How bad could it be?

    Democracy is unsatisfying. Maybe try fascism?

    The alt-right is the future of the Republican Party.

    Trump would rightfully receive a Nobel Peace Prize if he nuked Pyongyang.

    Most of those folks just like their Confederate monuments.

    What hacking?

    The Russia investigation died today.

    Like, I appreciate your contrarianism, but I wonder sometimes if being a smart person who’s willing to advocate for criminally dumb stuff must not be a burden. I’ll take a bleeding heart over dead-eyed moral vacuity every day.

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  3. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Krgrecw For This Useful Post:

    Jaw (09-06-2018), Runnin (09-05-2018)

  4. #17303
    It's OVER 5,000! Runnin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bravesnumberone View Post
    Pence totally wrote that. Oh, the ****ing irony. A right-wing, deep-state plot to foil Trump.
    Pence making his move?
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    13 people who might be the author of the op-ed, based on what we know about the various factions, likes, dislikes, motivations and ambitions within the Trump administration. These are in no particular order.

    Don McGahn
    We know the White House counsel is a short-timer -- planning to leave in the fall. We also know that McGahn has clashed with Trump repeatedly in the past -- refusing Trump's order to fire special counsel Robert Mueller. And McGahn has already shown a willingness to look out for the broader public good, sitting down for more than 30 hours with special counsel Robert Mueller's team to aid their investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election.

    Dan Coats
    The Director of National Intelligence is very much a part of the long-term Washington establishment, having spent not one but two stints in the nation's capital as a senator from Indiana. Coats has also shown a tendency to veer from the Trump songbook. Informed of Trump's plans to invite Russian president Vladimir Putin for a summit in the United States this fall, Coats said "That is going to be special" -- a line that drew the ire of the President.

    Kellyanne Conway
    (No way. She seems only selfish and opportunistic.)
    Conway, a White House counselor, is someone who has survived for a very long time in the political game. And not by being dumb or not understanding which way the wind blows. Plus, there is the X-factor of her husband -- George -- whose Twitter feed regularly trolls Trump.

    John Kelly
    Same as Mattis comment.
    The chief of staff has clashed repeatedly with the President and seems to be on borrowed time. Kelly sees his time in the job as serving his country in the only way left to him. Might he view exposing Trump in this way as a last way to be of service?

    Kirstjen Nielsen

    The head of the Department of Homeland Security is a close ally of Kelly, who we know has a very fraught relationship with Trump. And she has reasons of her own: Trump scolded her in a Cabinet meeting over the number of undocumented immigrants entering the country. Nielsen reportedly drafted a resignation letter but backed away.

    Jeff Sessions I hope so.
    Sessions sticks out as a possibility for a simple reason: He's got motive. No one has been more publicly maligned by Trump than his attorney general. Trump has repeatedly urged Sessions to use the Justice Department for his own pet political concerns. And this week, Sessions found out that Trump has referred to him as "mentally retarded" and mocked his southern accent, according to a new book by Washington Post reporter Bob Woodward. Sessions is also someone who spent two decades in the Senate prior to being named attorney general by Trump after the 2016 election.

    James Mattis
    Maybe. It's tactical and incendiary. A military guy would not be afraid of this.
    The defense secretary has been Trump's favorite Cabinet member. But the quotes attributed to Mattis in Woodward's book are VERY rough on Trump, though Mattis quickly denied that he ever said them. And if anyone has less to lose than Mattis -- he is a decorated military man serving his country again -- it's hard to figure out who that would be. Plus, Mattis is an ally of John Kelly (see above) and Rex Tillerson, the former secretary of state that Trump ran out on a rail.

    Fiona Hill
    Hill, a Russian expert who joined the Trump administration from the Brookings Institution, a DC think tank, might have reason to so publicly clash with Trump. She is far more skeptical about Russia's motives than Trump -- and was notably left out when Trump and Putin huddled on the sides of the G20 meeting in Germany in 2017. She was a close adviser to national security adviser H.R. McMaster, who was removed from the White House. And, she was also reportedly mistaken for a clerk by Trump in one of her earliest meetings with him on Russia.

    Mike Pence (Not smart or ballsy enough for this.)
    The vice president is all smiles, nods and quiet, deferential loyalty in public. Which of course means that he has the perfect cover to write something like this in The New York Times. Pence is also ambitious -- and there's no question he wants to be president. But would taking such a risk as writing this scathing op-ed be a better path to the White House than just waiting Trump out?

    Nikki Haley

    The United Nations ambassador is, like Pence, one of Trump's favorites. She is also, however, someone deeply engaged on the world stage and a voice of concern when it comes to how the President views Russia and Putin. Haley, again like Pence, is ambitious and has her eye on national office. Would this service that goal?

    Javanka Ivanka may be melodramatic enough, but I can't believe she'd betray her father this way. After he's out of office, her stock drops like a lead ball.
    The combination of Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump -- Javanka! -- writing this op-ed would be right out of a soap opera. But that is sort of a perfect way to describe the Trump administration, right? Ivanka Trump said she would work to make her voice heard to her father, but there's little evidence he's listened much to her or her husband. Might this be a bit of revenge?

    Melania Trump Hmmm
    To be clear, I don't think the first lady did this. But her willingness to send messages when she is unhappy with her husband or his administration is unmistakable. ("I really don't care. Do U?") And, if you believe this administration and Trump are governed by reality shows rules, then Melania writing the op-ed is the most reality TV thing EVER.

    My picks:

    1. A totally fake, brilliant and well-deserved attack to sow further distrust within the ranks.

    2. Sessions, Mattis and Kelly working together.

    3. Nikki Haley

    4. Melania
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    It’s probabaly a low level person who has no dealings with trump

  7. #17306
    It's OVER 5,000! 57Brave's Avatar
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    My money is on Pence or Pompeo.
    This has Koch fingerprints all over it
    The best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to make sure he doesn’t get a gun.

  8. #17307
    Expects Yuge Games nsacpi's Avatar
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    I'm guessing Kellyanne.
    "I am a victim, I will tell you. I am a victim."

    "I am your retribution."

  9. #17308
    It's OVER 5,000! 57Brave's Avatar
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    what troubles me is the lengths (R) has gone to secure their policies.
    By gerrymandering districts along racial lines disguised as implied racial doom to "economic anxiety" (more implied racial doom)
    to illegally hacking their opponents to, yes, getting into political bed with the nation that is anf has historically been, the antithesis of our national values.

    At some point we will have to decide if the ends do justify the means and if those tax cuts (payoffs to the donor class --corruption on the grandest scale) were really worth it

    I hope we will be having that conversation
    Last edited by 57Brave; 09-06-2018 at 07:10 AM.
    The best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to make sure he doesn’t get a gun.

  10. #17309
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    I guess at the end of this saga in their heart of hearts (R) will have to answer for Donald Trump.
    That includes Never Trump (R)'s, Libertarians , TeaBaggers and your everyday rock ribbed conservative (R)

    At the end of the day the only thing they stand for is repudiation of the New Deal and their means is invoking racial animus
    Last edited by 57Brave; 09-06-2018 at 07:15 AM.
    The best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to make sure he doesn’t get a gun.

  11. #17310
    It's OVER 5,000! Runnin's Avatar
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    And the old white guys staged reverently behind Trump while he blathers off the cuff about the NYT. They are in serious damage control mode.
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  12. #17311
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    If the op-ed is real then whoever wrote it has to realize that their identity is likely to leak out. That would make them too radioactive to remain in the political realm, so I think we can rule out people like Pence, Haley, and Conway who still aspire to greater things.

    I think two lifetime military officers like Kelly and Mattis would consider the letter to be insubordinate, so I can't imagine it being either of them.

    Jared seems like the type who relishes power, and he is certainly moving in circles he could have never dreamed of if not for Trump. Trump has put him on NAFTA, Middle East peace, and basically whatever else comes up that Trump sees an opportunity for good press. I think that makes Javanka extremely unlikely.

    Unlike her husband, Melania seems to have gone to much effort to show the proper behavior and respect for her position. I expect her to file divorce papers the day after our next president is inaugurated, but she'll never do it while it can further taint the White House. It's sad that a former nude model is the classier of the two White House tenants, but there it is. No way she wrote the letter.

    McGahn, Coats, Nielson, and Hill are just common paper pushing bureaucrats working in areas that revolve more around DC group-think than principles, ability, or ideology. As long as the whole Establishment/Swamp/Deep State or whatever else you want to call it exists, they will be able to find jobs that maintain the status quo and do very little else. Any of them could have written it without fearing any serious repercussions.

    Jeff Sessions seems perfect for the role. What form of revenge better fits a lifelong politician from Alabama better than this? I think the most likely explanation for the letter is that it's a fraud, but if it is real, I would bet on a close member of Sessions' staff as being the source.
    Go get him!

    Founding member of the Whiny Little Bitches and Pricks Club

  13. #17312
    It's OVER 5,000! Jaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krgrecw View Post
    This is amazing.
    Go get him!

    Founding member of the Whiny Little Bitches and Pricks Club

  14. #17313
    It's OVER 5,000! 57Brave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaw View Post
    If the op-ed is real then whoever wrote it has to realize that their identity is likely to leak out. .

    Would think that Woodward being so in the news the past few days people would understand Deep Throat, whose identity remained anonymous for 30ish years .

    Also find irony in labeling themselves Anonymous in light of 99% protests of a few years back.

    It might be a hoax -- ?
    But too many things add up
    Again, Deep Throat was thought by some to be a hoax-invented character

    All The Presidents Men stands up to history
    Worth a read. Not the movie, the book
    The best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to make sure he doesn’t get a gun.

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    It's OVER 5,000! cajunrevenge's Avatar
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    If it was Pence then the NYT should tell just for the chaos that would ensue. I originally thought it was Pence. I practically predicted he would do something like this, but on further thought I wonder who Trump might pick for VP if Pence is ousted. Could this be a person angling to frame Pence in an attempt to get the VP position knowing Trump is likely to not survive his full term. Can the President force the VP to resign? I dont think Pence would go willingly because he thinks Jeebus wants him to be President. It would be amazing to see Trump and Pence feuding.
    "Donald Trump will serve a second term as president of the United States.

    It’s over."


    Little Thethe Nov 19, 2020.

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    Pence is a Koch puppet

    Trump will not win that battle/war
    The best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to make sure he doesn’t get a gun.

  17. #17316
    It's OVER 5,000! cajunrevenge's Avatar
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    Pence is the male Hillary Clinton. No one likes him and the harder he tries the less people will like him. He will have his base Christian Jihadist like Clinton had her SJW base. Pence wasnt even going to win reelection as Governor.
    Last edited by cajunrevenge; 09-06-2018 at 09:22 AM.
    "Donald Trump will serve a second term as president of the United States.

    It’s over."


    Little Thethe Nov 19, 2020.

  18. #17317
    A Chip Off the Old Rock Julio3000's Avatar
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    Some things about the op-ed.

    1. It’s real. That’s not to say that it’s honest, per se, but no matter how jaundiced your view of NYT, there’s no way they run something like that without being 100% certain of its provenance.

    2. I don’t think it was likely to have been a cabinet member at all. “Senior Staff” is actually a pretty wide net.

    3. Whoever it is is a basic bitch party-uber-alles foot soldier.

    4. It’s probably the first shot fired in a rear-guard action to protect the party when Trump’s presidency inevitably goes tits-up. That’s the only context that makes sense. I find it deeply cynical and self-serving. If so many people inside think he’s dangerously incompetent, they should be saying so on the record. If they think he’s actually mentally incapable of doing the job, they should initiate the constitutional remedy that exists for such a situation. Anything short of those two actions is just CYA writ large.

    Big picture, though, I’ve lost count of the insider types who’ve said that this stuff, and the Woodward revelations, tracks with what they hear from WH staff.

  19. #17318
    It's OVER 5,000! 57Brave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cajunrevenge View Post
    Pence is the male Hillary Clinton. No one likes him and the harder he tries the less people will like him. He will have his base Christian Jihadist like Clinton had her SJW base. Pence wasnt even going to win reelection as Governor.
    Mike Pence couldn't carry Hillary Clinton's jock strap
    The best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to make sure he doesn’t get a gun.

  20. #17319
    It's OVER 5,000! cajunrevenge's Avatar
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    You have an awfully high opinion of the only person to lose a presidential nomination to black man and a presidential race to a retard. Her main campaign was "vote for me because I have a vagina".
    "Donald Trump will serve a second term as president of the United States.

    It’s over."


    Little Thethe Nov 19, 2020.

  21. #17320
    It's OVER 5,000! 57Brave's Avatar
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    ... get it ? ...
    Huh, get it

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