The Trump Presidency

[57Brave]

Jamison Foser ‏@jamisonfoser 13h13 hours ago

.@JasonInTheHouse called for resignation of heads of Obama EPA, IRS, SS, Treasury, NRC, and Chemical Safety Board.

But not Michael Flynn.
130 replies 2,002 retweets 2,706 likes

[nsacpi]

Yes, it does right now, but let's allow it to play out.

It's only been judged in enemy territory so far.

two of the judges involved have been Republican appointees

[Julio3000]

Why?

There are plenty of testimonials from colleagues who went from respecting him to running as fast as they could in the other direction. I think sitting beside ol' Volodya at dinner was a pretty strange move.

Here are a few items:

Retweet of a disgustingly anti-semitic remark…deleted because it was a “mistake.”

Quoth Colin Powell: “Abusive with staff, didn’t listen, worked against policy, bad management, etc. He has been and was right-wing nutty every [sic] since.”

'According to the New York Times, Flynn’s colleagues used to talk about “Flynn facts,” alluding to his tenuous relationship with the truth.’

His kookiness about "creeping sharia law" in the US. Unless you think that's mainstream stuff.

“U decide - NYPD Blows Whistle on New Hillary Emails: Money Laundering, Sex Crimes w Children, etc...MUST READ! https://t.co/O0bVJT3QDr
— General Flynn (@GenFlynn) Nov. 3, 2016”

CNN: 'In late October, Flynn retweeted a false claim that United Nations Agenda 21, a sustainable development program, would create a one world church where Christianity was prohibited and that choosing nationalism was the only way to stop Clinton.'
...

‘In July, Flynn linked to a tweet that falsely claimed Clinton was "wearing hijab in solidarity with islamic terrorists." The picture was from a 2009 trip Clinton took to Pakistan as secretary of state, in which she donned a head covering during a visit to a mosque as a diplomatic courtesy.
"This is not showing respect. This is showing disrespect for American Values and Principles. #NeverHillary," Flynn wrote in his link to the tweet.’

Shouting "lock her up" from the podium at the RNC?

Is that just politics or is that kooky conspiracy theory garbage?

You can call it unconventional or iconoclastic instead of nutty if you prefer, but it hardly speaks well of a guy whose job is to provide sober and impartial advice to the President.

[57Brave]

Dan Pfeiffer ‏@danpfeiffer 3h3 hours ago

Dan Pfeiffer Retweeted Jamie Dupree

Chaffetz is basically a Trump campaign staffer but we all pay his salary

[Hawk]

two of the judges involved have been Republican appointees

Okay, but let's try looking at context again:

- The 'Republican' judge in MA did not decide on the ban itself:

Judge: "It is not a hearing on the merits to the demerits of the new administration's immigration policy. This is a hearing about whether a temporary restraining order imposed by this court earlier this week on behalf of two of the plaintiffs (and six others that have since been added to the complaint) should or should not be allowed to expire."

- The 'Republican' judge involved in the CA panel did not rule on the question of bad faith:

Of the three judges who heard arguments over the travel ban, Clifton had the toughest questions for the attorney representing the two states — Washington and Minnesota — challenging it. He asked what evidence the attorney had that the president's travel ban was motivated by religious prejudice. At one point, Clifton pressed him, "Do I have to believe everything you allege and say, 'Well, that must be right."

---

You've made the claim several times in this thread that there is 'unconstitutional' play afoot. This is not backed up by fact or by recent judicial opinion (which appears to be contrary to popular belief).

[nsacpi]

Why?

have you read any accounts of his tenure during his last job at the Pentagon....there came to be something known as the "Flynn Rules"

[nsacpi]

Okay, but let's try looking at context again:

- The 'Republican' judge in MA did not decide on the ban itself:

Judge: "It is not a hearing on the merits to the demerits of the new administration's immigration policy. This is a hearing about whether a temporary restraining order imposed by this court earlier this week on behalf of two of the plaintiffs (and six others that have since been added to the complaint) should or should not be allowed to expire."

- The 'Republican' judge involved in the CA panel did not rule on the question of bad faith:

Of the three judges who heard arguments over the travel ban, Clifton had the toughest questions for the attorney representing the two states — Washington and Minnesota — challenging it. He asked what evidence the attorney had that the president's travel ban was motivated by religious prejudice. At one point, Clifton pressed him, "Do I have to believe everything you allege and say, 'Well, that must be right."

---

You've made the claim several times in this thread that there is 'unconstitutional' play afoot. This is not backed up by fact or by recent judicial opinion.

Fair enough. It is early in these cases. None of the judges have ruled on the merits. They have made some preliminary judgments about the likelihood that various parties will prevail. But we don't know the details of their reasoning. Judge Brinkema does seem willing to consider the possibility that what we have here is executive order that violates the establishment clause.

To circle back to our friend General Flynn, he has made clear that he believes that Islam is an ideology not a religion. So I suppose it is logical (in an ironic sort of way) to have a response a ban on an ideology (disguised religion) that itself is disguised as an executive order about security

The problem for this particular aspect of the Trump-Flynn-Bannon worldview is that the courts are unlikely to agree that Islam is an ideology not a religion. I suppose if they were clever enough they would find ways to better camouflage what they are up to. But they do not seem that clever.

[Hawk]

have you read any accounts of his tenure during his last job at the Pentagon....there came to be something known as the "Flynn Rules"

Flynn, Donald Trump's newly named national security adviser, told The New Yorker's Dana Priest that he would sneak out of the CIA station in Iraq when he was assigned there without the "insane" required approval from headquarters.

He also said he had technicians install an Internet connection in his Pentagon office, even though it was forbidden.

Another time, Flynn said he gave classified information to NATO allies without approval, which resulted in an investigation and a warning from superiors.

---

Mike Flynn: a rebel without a cause.

[Julio3000]

Flynn, Donald Trump's newly named national security adviser, told The New Yorker's Dana Priest that he would sneak out of the CIA station in Iraq when he was assigned there without the "insane" required approval from headquarters.

He also said he had technicians install an Internet connection in his Pentagon office, even though it was forbidden.

Another time, Flynn said he gave classified information to NATO allies without approval, which resulted in an investigation and a warning from superiors.

---

Mike Flynn: a rebel without a cause.

So now he's been bounced from successive presidential administrations under clouded circumstances.

If you meet an asshole one day, you've met an asshole. If you meet an asshole every day, maybe you're the asshole.

[Hawk]

There are plenty of testimonials from colleagues who went from respecting him to running as fast as they could in the other direction. I think sitting beside ol' Volodya at dinner was a pretty strange move.

Here are a few items:

Retweet of a disgustingly anti-semitic remark…deleted because it was a “mistake.”

Quoth Colin Powell: “Abusive with staff, didn’t listen, worked against policy, bad management, etc. He has been and was right-wing nutty every [sic] since.”

'According to the New York Times, Flynn’s colleagues used to talk about “Flynn facts,” alluding to his tenuous relationship with the truth.’

His kookiness about "creeping sharia law" in the US. Unless you think that's mainstream stuff.

“U decide - NYPD Blows Whistle on New Hillary Emails: Money Laundering, Sex Crimes w Children, etc...MUST READ! https://t.co/O0bVJT3QDr
— General Flynn (@GenFlynn) Nov. 3, 2016”

CNN: 'In late October, Flynn retweeted a false claim that United Nations Agenda 21, a sustainable development program, would create a one world church where Christianity was prohibited and that choosing nationalism was the only way to stop Clinton.'
...

‘In July, Flynn linked to a tweet that falsely claimed Clinton was "wearing hijab in solidarity with islamic terrorists." The picture was from a 2009 trip Clinton took to Pakistan as secretary of state, in which she donned a head covering during a visit to a mosque as a diplomatic courtesy.
"This is not showing respect. This is showing disrespect for American Values and Principles. #NeverHillary," Flynn wrote in his link to the tweet.’

Shouting "lock her up" from the podium at the RNC?

Is that just politics or is that kooky conspiracy theory garbage?

You can call it unconventional or iconoclastic instead of nutty if you prefer, but it hardly speaks well of a guy whose job is to provide sober and impartial advice to the President.

I think Mike Jr. ran the Twitter account. Either way, you should know by now that RTs don't equal endorsements (rolls eyes).

So, now we're down to Colin Powell waxing on something other than dicking bimbos, questions about sharia law, and Flynn championing one of the most profound rallying calls to the base during the campaign?

[Hawk]

If you meet an asshole one day, you've met an asshole. If you meet an asshole every day, maybe you're the asshole.

[Hawk]

The problem for this particular aspect of the Trump-Flynn-Bannon worldview is that the courts are unlikely to agree that Islam is an ideology not a religion. I suppose if they were clever enough they would find ways to better camouflage what they are up to. But they do not seem that clever.

But they might agree that Radical (jihadist) Islam is an ideology.

[Julio3000]

I think Mike Jr. ran the Twitter account. Either way, you should know by now that RTs don't equal endorsements (roll-eyes).

So, now we're down to Colin Powell waxing on something other than dicking bimbos, questions about sharia law, and Flynn championing one of the most profound rallying calls to the base during the campaign?

Yeah, it's not nutty at all, once you throw the nutty stuff out. Then you're left with Colin Powell calling you nutty, and nobody believes that guy, he said to the Iraq War bitter-ender.

I think Mike Jr. ran the Twitter account.

Oh, THAT'S a valid defense?

you should know by now that RTs don't equal endorsements (roll-eyes)

I remember all those times Brent Scowcroft and Condi Rice retweeted white supremos, anti-semites, and conspiracy wackos. Totally normal behavior for key NatSec personnel. And not nutty at all.

You're stretching harder than Bartolo Colon's compression pants.

[nsacpi]

Yes, it does right now, but let's allow it to play out.

It's only been judged in enemy territory so far.

But they might agree that Radical (jihadist) Islam is an ideology.

they do not seem to make the distinction...which is why we ended up with the overly broad executive order

[Julio3000]

Haha, well played.

On the other hand, maybe this guy got Peter-Principled into and out of a big job, then failed upwards into a spot on Trump's Russophile roster, was rewarded with a plum gig, then was **** at THAT job.

I mean, the Press Secretary has been at the podium for the last 20 minutes saying that he was not trustworthy.

[Hawk]

Yeah, it's not nutty at all, once you throw the nutty stuff out. Then you're left with Colin Powell calling you nutty, and nobody believes that guy, he said to the Iraq War bitter-ender.

I think Mike Jr. ran the Twitter account.

Oh, THAT'S a valid defense?

you should know by now that RTs don't equal endorsements (roll-eyes)

I remember all those times Brent Scowcroft and Condi Rice retweeted white supremos, anti-semites, and conspiracy wackos. Totally normal behavior for key NatSec personnel. And not nutty at all.

You're stretching harder than Bartolo Colon's compression pants.

I just think it's very 2017 to base the entirety of your argument that Flynn is a "nutter" based on a handful of Tweets and a NYTimes report.

No mention of, you know, corroborating evidence compiled from his 33 years of service, or as Director of the DIA, Chair of Military Intel, etc.

It seems disingenuous - but I take your point.

[Hawk]

I mean, the Press Secretary has been at the podium for the last 20 minutes saying that he was not trustworthy.

Maybe, at this point, the smartest move is to make Flynn the fall guy for anything and everything related to Russia.

[Julio3000]

I just think it's very 2017 to base the entirety of your argument that Flynn is a "nutter" based on a handful of Tweets and a NYTimes report.

No mention of, you know, corroborating evidence compiled from his 33 years of service, or as Director of the DIA, Chair of Military Intel, etc.

It seems disingenuous - but I take your point.

True. I don't know if he's a nutter or not. There is no shortage of military and intel officers aghast at his behavior and judgement, but that doesn't mean he's a nutter.

So, is it injudicious, indicative of poor judgement, unethical, unprofessional?

As for the tweets--it doesn't necessarily reflect on one's mental health, but when you lie down with those dogs, you get fleas, no? Those folks ARE nutters, aren't they?

[Hawk]

they do not seem to make the distinction...which is why we ended up with the overly broad executive order

My comment was purely hypothetical. The religious question will likely never actually come to the court over the current order.

[Julio3000]

Maybe, at this point, the smartest move is to make Flynn the fall guy for anything and everything related to Russia.

Probably so. And if the congressional R's don't choose to investigate it robustly, they may be vindicated in that strategy.

It's possible that the лошадь has already left the сарай, though.