The Trump Presidency

[Julio3000]

Yes - American citizens. Doesn't matter where they are or what they look like I'm putting them ahead of illegals.

What's the net economic impact of DACA?

[Hawk]

i am fine helping them too

bringing this up reminds me of people who bring up some random job when people talk about raising minimum wage when it's fast food people.

"why do fast food workers deserve $15 if a hospital worker is only getting $15 an hour".

i am not against the hospital worker or whatever getting paid more too. they are most likely underpaid as well

thus it reminds me of your scenario, "well, what about these other people"

Well, they aren't being helped, they are being ****ed for doing the right thing. The legal thing. The admirable thing.

It isn't a fast food worker vs. a hospital worker scenario.

It's two fast food workers, both getting paid $15 an hour. Except, one worker spits on the burgers. And you have made the spitter a manager, because you think you have compassion.

And then, to add insult to injury, you are telling the other guy, the one who is just working hard and doing his job correctly, "Yo, just keep working harder bro! Something is coming for you!"

[Julio3000]

So without the DACA EO, The freedom caucus would've signed on to the comprehensive immigration reform bill of '13?

[goldfly]

i am not saying they are or aren't being helped

i am saying, help them make it easier for them too

i was saying your scenario reminds me of the wage debate when someone says "what about these people over here" instead of staying on the topic

[Julio3000]

Well, they aren't being helped, they are being ****ed for doing the right thing. The legal thing. The admirable thing.

It isn't a fast food worker vs. a hospital worker scenario.

It's two fast food workers, both getting paid $15 an hour. Except, one worker spits on the burgers. And you have made the spitter a manager, because you think you have compassion.

And then, to add insult to injury, you are telling the other guy, the one who is just working hard and doing his job correctly, "Yo, just keep working harder bro! Something is coming for you!"

I'm not sure I get the spitting analogy.

[thethe]

What's the net economic impact of DACA?

Its difficult to ascertain that. I think the short term will be a negative but overall the long term benefits will outweigh the short term loss.

[Julio3000]

i am not saying they are or aren't being helped

i am saying, help them make it easier for them too

i was saying your scenario reminds me of the wage debate when someone says "what about these people over here" instead of staying on the topic

Yeah.

[Hawk]

i am not saying they are or aren't being helped

i am saying, help them make it easier for them too

i was saying your scenario reminds me of the wage debate when someone says "what about these people over here" instead of staying on the topic

Who should receive priority on the gold-laden path to citizenship? Illegal aliens or legal aliens? Simple question.

[Hawk]

I'm not sure I get the spitting analogy.

Sure you do.

To break the law is to spit on it, no?

[jpx7]

My sympathies to the Dreamers, truly, but we can and should differentiate between their plight and a ****ty, illegal, vote-pandering executive order.

This country desperately needs immigration reform.

Shame that nobody trusts our Congress to get it done.

Might've been ****ty and vote-pandering, but its legality hasn't been fully judged.

And I blame a purposefully intractable Republican Congress for the EO as much as the former President; it reeks of something most mainstream Republicans were fine implementing, but—due to pressure from more extreme elements of their constituency—didn't want to be seen officially voting "for" it. (The half-assed healthcare overhaul under Obama falls in this category, as well.)

[Julio3000]

Who should receive priority on the gold-laden path to citizenship? Illegal aliens or legal aliens? Simple question.

And you think that's a solid recap of the congressional opposition to reform?

[jpx7]

Sure you do.

To break the law is to spit on it, no?

Sometimes it's to **** on it—which, in proper proportion, is good for fertility.

[goldfly]

Who should receive priority on the gold-laden path to citizenship? Illegal aliens or legal aliens? Simple question.

i am totally on board helping illegal aliens who came here when they were 6 years old etc when their parents brought them here and know no other country except this one

the rest is political bull**** in my view

priority? this isn't a triage scenario where we have to pick and choose one or the other.

[Julio3000]

Sure you do.

To break the law is to spit on it, no?

In this analogy you're comparing people who were illegally transported to the US as minors, were granted deferred status, and have to work, study, and keep their noses clean as condition of staying with someone who spits a hamburger.

So, yes, ****ty analogy.

[Hawk]

Might've been ****ty and vote-pandering, but its legality hasn't been fully judged.

And I blame a purposefully intractable Republican Congress for the EO as much as the former President; it reeks of something most mainstream Republicans were fine implementing, but—due to pressure from more extreme elements of their constituency—didn't want to be seen officially voting "for" it. (The half-assed healthcare overhaul under Obama falls in this category, as well.)

That's true, but the consensus was that it wouldn't pass legal muster. Which makes Trump's decision here all the more mystifying, to me. Courts were literally days from taking it up.

The problem with the EO is that DACA likely wouldn't have ever been passed as a standalone bill. Previous iterations of legislation that included DACA also included border security concessions and new visa classes.

[Hawk]

And you think that's a solid recap of the congressional opposition to reform?

I get that you are hung up on 2013 and freedom caucus bitterness, but what about missed opportunities in 2006/2007? Who do you blame for that?

[Hawk]

i am totally on board helping illegal aliens who came here when they were 6 years old etc when their parents brought them here and know no other country except this one

the rest is political bull**** in my view

priority? this isn't a triage scenario where we have to pick and choose one or the other.

So why don't you want to help legal aliens who came here when they were 6?

Their emotional circumstances are exactly the same.

That's political bull****.

[goldfly]

I get that you are hung up on 2013 and freedom caucus bitterness, but what about missed opportunities in 2006/2007? Who do you blame for that?

voters in republican states that somehow didn't get the democratic senate to 60 votes so we wouldn't have to worry about republicans who said "our only goal is to make Obama a one term president" and blocked everything he did?

[goldfly]

So why don't you want to help legal aliens who came here when they were 6?

Their emotional circumstances are exactly the same.

That's political bull****.

i do

i have told you multiple times in the last couple posts that i do

hell, it was in the post you quoted with me saying i don't see why we have to pick and choose one or the other. i'm fine helping both

[Hawk]

In this analogy you're comparing people who were illegally transported to the US as minors, were granted deferred status, and have to work, study, and keep their noses clean as condition of staying with someone who spits a hamburger.

So, yes, ****ty analogy.

No, I'm comparing people who were LEGALLY transported to the US as minors, who are faced with H1B/OPT regulations, fees, and a ****ing LOTTERY, with people who were ILLEGALLY transported to the US as minors, who are gifted a work permit in exchange for paying $500 every two years.