Braves acquire Alex Jackson from SEA for Whalen and Povse

[Tapate50]

Presumably for 40-man considerations. If we complete the trade for such a player before the Rule 5 draft, we have to put them on the 40-man, but if they aren't taken, we can maintain flexibility.

I would imagine getting the guy you want in the deal would be a little more important? Maybe I'm off on this.

[dak]

Presumably for 40-man considerations. If we complete the trade for such a player before the Rule 5 draft, we have to put them on the 40-man, but if they aren't taken, we can maintain flexibility.

Agreed. 40-man spots are precious, especially for a team with a growing talent base.

[Enscheff]

I like everyone else love this deal. Sell high and buy low. Trade from depth. It's really that easy. Whalen and Povse were both at their peak value. Jackson is at his lowest value.

Can't argue with this. Getting a former #6 overall draft pick who has demonstrated he can't hit is about as "buy low" as it gets. Trading away a guy who had AA success at age 23 after signing out of college is a pretty good example of "selling high" as well.

[smootness]

FWIW, J. J. Cooper wasn't that big on the deal - explains that it makes sense only because of our depth and recommends a move back behind the plate as well.

Yeah, but he said, 'His bat doesn't fit in RF,' which is a pretty dumb thing to say about a guy with limited experience in A-ball. We don't know what his bat is yet.

[zbhargrove]

Yeah. Povse is about #10 for starting pitchers in the system. But the pecking order evolves quite a bit over time. I think he has a better chance of having a productive major league career than Jackson.

Yes but we have boat loads of the same type of pitcher... and quite a few that are much better. There's likely no chance he will see the majors with us. Jackson is only 20 with all the potential in the world as an offensive player. We need offensive players in the prospect pipeline. To say Jackson is not a prospect anymore is just plain silly.

[smootness]

Can't argue with this. Getting a former #6 overall draft pick who has demonstrated he can't hit is about as "buy low" as it gets. Trading away a guy who had AA success at age 23 after signing out of college is a pretty good example of "selling high" as well.

When a guy's value is as low as it's ever been and another's value is as high as it's ever been, and those two values are pretty equal, I'm going to make that deal just about every day even if I know nothing else about the two players.

[Horsehide Harry]

At some point the Braves have to find some batting depth in the system. They have some options on high average, high OBP, low power guys, but are pretty limited on guys with a power/production profile. They are obviously willing to gamble on Jackson with two pitchers who probably had a limited future with the Braves. Whalen, to me, screams AAAA. Povse is the one that might be a loss but he's pretty far down the list as far as Braves pitching prospects.

[clvclv]

Yeah, but he said, 'His bat doesn't fit in RF,' which is a pretty dumb thing to say about a guy with limited experience in A-ball. We don't know what his bat is yet.

What I'd expect that he probably didn't feel like he had to say is that Jackson was ticketed for a THIRD trip through A-ball had he not been traded, and for a guy drafted ahead of Conforto, Trea Turner, Casey Gillaspie, and Bradley Zimmer, he certainly hasn't come close to keeping up with his draft class.

Again, that's not to say he isn't a wildcard with a chance to figure some things out and that it was a bad trade - just pointing out that this has a LONG way to go to becoming a steal, because to this point Jackson's done nothing to indicate he's ever going to get to The Show, much less hit 20+ bombs every year.

Garrett Spain made a great point about "prospect fatigue" in his article about Demeritte vs, Albies that seems pretty appropriate here as well. While Povse wasn't as advanced as Albies is, he's been quite good - everyone's just been hearing about him for a good while so people are more intrigued with shinier new toys (Jackson).

[smootness]

What I'd expect that he probably didn't feel like he had to say is that Jackson was ticketed for a THIRD trip through A-ball had he not been traded, and for a guy drafted ahead of Conforto, Trea Turner, Casey Gillaspie, and Bradley Zimmer, he certainly hasn't come close to keeping up with his draft class.

Again, that's not to say he isn't a wildcard with a chance to figure some things out and that it was a bad trade - just pointing out that this has a LONG way to go to becoming a steal, because to this point Jackson's done nothing to indicate he's ever going to get to The Show, much less hit 20+ bombs every year.

Garrett Spain made a great point about "prospect fatigue" in his article about Demeritte vs, Albies that seems pretty appropriate here as well. While Povse wasn't as advanced as Albies is, he's been quite good - everyone's just been hearing about him for a good while so people are more intrigued with shinier new toys (Jackson).

Conforto, Turner, Gillaspie, and Zimmer all came out of college.

I'm not arguing Jackson's value has dropped, it obviously has. I mean, he was a top-30 prospect a couple years ago and obviously isn't close to that right now. But he showed promising signs last year and he's one good year in A+ away from jumping right back up into legit prospect territory again.

I just don't think it's fair to say that the reason we're so excited about the trade is because we've heard about Povse for a long time and now get someone new to talk about. That is a real thing, but I love the deal simply because Povse is a good but not great pitching prospect in a system overflowing with good-great pitching prospects and Jackson has a big-time ceiling. I think most understand the chances of him hitting that are very low, but it's still a great deal to take that chance.

I am not one of those who thinks Demeritte is approximately Albies. I love Albies and hate the idea of trading him. But I also love this deal.

[clvclv]

BA podcast - Jackson talk starts at about 17:30.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/minor...mXCQrtFkCrX.97

[UNCBlue012]

Jackson's last 80 games of 2016: .264/.341/.421

Just some positive looks.

[Carp]

Can't argue with this. Getting a former #6 overall draft pick who has demonstrated he can't hit is about as "buy low" as it gets. Trading away a guy who had AA success at age 23 after signing out of college is a pretty good example of "selling high" as well.

I'm failing to see how a 20 year old with a mid.700 OPS in his first full year in A ball is considered "demonstrated he can't hit. "

[sturg33]

I'm cool with this type of deal. It's a deal we will most likely lose but the upside of winning is much larger than the downside of losing.

I'm in the "move him to catcher" camp, though

[clvclv]

I'm failing to see how a 20 year old with a mid.700 OPS in his first full year in A ball is considered "demonstrated he can't hit. "

They get into his struggles in the BA podcast - mention that he wasn't cooperative when asked to make adjustments, etc.. Also pointed out that he's the only high school first-rounder in this century NOT to be assigned to a full season roster within two years of being drafted (there was one other, but he was suspended).

Again, he's got upside - but moving him back behind the plate certainly isn't likely to help his bat much. The guys on the podcast both think his profile and upside fit best as a backup Catcher - IF the defense can develop.

[clvclv]

I'm cool with this type of deal. It's a deal we will most likely lose but the upside of winning is much larger than the downside of losing.

I'm in the "move him to catcher" camp, though

Just need to be careful about how many of these types of players we're willing to roll the dice on though - all that pitching depth can dry up real quick with several two-for-one deals of back-end SPs for wildcards. Mix in a couple injuries and all of a sudden you become pitching-poor pretty easily.

[bravesfanMatt]

Jackson's last 80 games of 2016: .264/.341/.421

Just some positive looks.

His home/away splits are crazy. He hated to hit in Clinton. If you take out his slow May (like you did) but also look at his road games less May he was .310/.395/.509/.904 over 43 games and 182 plate appearances.. Even with his slow may, his away splits are an .872 OPS for 2016.

[Chico]

They get into his struggles in the BA podcast - mention that he wasn't cooperative when asked to make adjustments, etc.. Also pointed out that he's the only high school first-rounder in this century NOT to be assigned to a full season roster within two years of being drafted (there was one other, but he was suspended).

Again, he's got upside - but moving him back behind the plate certainly isn't likely to help his bat much. The guys on the podcast both think his profile and upside fit best as a backup Catcher - IF the defense can develop.

I've read all the quotes about his maturity and frankly that makes me feel better about the trade. I'm also old enough to think all 20 year olds are immature/spoiled. You add in being the top high school bat in CA and he was probably a little biatch. The hope is a change of scenery and a dose of reality will get his head in the game. You can't teach talent, but you can put your foot up a talented kid's arse and sometimes get results.

[Tapate50]

His home/away splits are crazy. He hated to hit in Clinton. If you take out his slow May (like you did) but also look at his road games less May he was .310/.395/.509/.904 over 43 games and 182 plate appearances.. Even with his slow may, his away splits are an .872 OPS for 2016.

POSIBRAVES ASSSSEEEMMMBBLLEEE!

[Enscheff]

This trade isn't bad. Alex Jackson isn't a bad prospect. Just because someone isn't jumping up and down proclaiming this trade a "steal by the genius Coppy" doesn't mean they are calling it a bad trade.

Fact of the mater is nobody on this board even knew who Alex Jackson was before this trade. Before he was a Brave everybody on this board would have called him a bust, or at the very least well on his way to becoming one. Now that he was acquired by the Braves, he is suddenly some guy on the verge of breaking out, and Povse is suddenly chopped liver the Braves can afford to toss away for this lottery ticket bat.

Remember all those people that said Whalen "just knew how to pitch", and should be given a chance to stick as a starter that "hits his spots like Maddux" and "just got people out"? Where are they now? They are calling him a completely fungible asset now that he was traded, just like I had been describing him months ago.

So what changed? Their uniforms, and nothing else. All objectivity has been tossed out the window as a result.

At the end of the day, Jackson will probably completely bust, and Whalen and Povse will be fringe contributors at the MLB level. This is far from some amazing steal of a trade by the Braves. The most accurate description is that the Braves used pitching depth to buy a lottery ticket, which I find an odd use of talent assets. However, odd does not equal bad, so we can stop with the arguments defending the trade as if anyone called it bad.

[Enscheff]

POSIBRAVES ASSSSEEEMMMBBLLEEE!

Has he owned a Braves jacket since he was 12?