Political Correctness

[57Brave]

" as minorities see a drastic improvement of their situation under trump. "

have you seen Trumps approval ratings re: "minorities"

Seems a funny way of showing approval
............

What facts ?
There was a statement that " crimes are still being committed at disproportionate rates by minorities "
usually facts come with data.

Better would be crimes committed by those on the bottom of the economic scale. Regardless ethnicity.
Was that your point ?

[thethe]

" as minorities see a drastic improvement of their situation under trump. "

have you seen Trumps approval ratings re: "minorities"

Seems a funny way of showing approval

Yeah - polling has been real accurate lately. This all you got?

[57Brave]

actually polling has been accurate -- HRC was favored plus or minus 3. She won the vote within that margin.


When a poll is as lopsided as Trumps approval disapproval what is there to argue.
Suppose it is off 10%. That would mean 85 disapprov while 15% approe
What is your point ?

[sturg33]

Because I present facts you get offended? The fact that the left tries to shut this down is part of the reason we can't solve problems. But keep using this outdated approach as minorities see a drastic improvement of their situation under trump.

"Facts don't care about your feelings."

[sturg33]

I won't say this as eloquently as it needs to be said, but hopefully it's understood that I mean it constructively.

There comes a point where trying to force and mandate the proper level of diversity in all things becomes counterproductive. The things we are discussing, and often mocking, in this thread is the type of stuff that got us Republican nominee and President Trump. Call it dog whistling, code words, or whatever you like, but the man picked up on and then spoke to a growing resentment of these issues in his campaign.

Yes, I know conventional wisdom is the Van Jones 'whitelash' theory that this was all due to having a black president. That theory falls apart under the lightest scrutiny. Why didn't the whitelash occur in 2008 to prevent the black man from reaching the highest position, if we as a nation are really so racist? Why didn't it occur in 2012 when Republicans nominated their most electable candidate since Reagan, and were still soundly beaten? The idea that the racists popped out to protest the black guy after he was no longer a candidate is just hogwash. Anecdotally, I know several genuine rednecks that Obama 08 because "we need change," and Obama 12 because "Republicans won't work with him." Then they voted Trump in the primary and the general because "he isn't afraid to tell it like it is."

That vague sentiment is rampant today, and it wasn't caused by the guy they helped elect. It's caused by the people telling them they are racist despite their vote for him, it's caused by hearing about colleges using formulas that give priority to a racial mix instead of merit, by being told that straight dudes should be attracted to other dudes who dress up as chicks as long as that "chick" wants to be a chick, by being told their accomplishments don't count because white privilege, that their perspective is worth less due to their skin color. In a nutshell, they are mad because they are treated exactly as they are told they should not treat others, judged as part of a group instead of as an individual. Now people can try to justify that in any top lofty social justice academia equality way that they want, but it won't change the result. At some point, if we want society to prove itself worthy, we have to trust it to be worthy. Remove the training wheels, let go of the handlebars, and let us find balance.

Nailed it

[cajunrevenge]

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...ichigan-upset/


Like that time Bernie won Michigan by 1.5 points while being down 21% in the polls? Nate Silver called it "among the greatest polling errors in primary history". I am sure its a coincidence it favored Hillary.

[thethe]

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...ichigan-upset/


Like that time Bernie won Michigan by 1.5 points while being down 21% in the polls? Nate Silver called it "among the greatest polling errors in primary history". I am sure its a coincidence it favored Hillary.

The polling numbers leading up to the election is what deserves investigation. The final poll being close to accurate doesn't vindicate the massive errors throughout the election cycle

[57Brave]

I remember the time Justin Turner struck out.

Steph Curry missed a foul shot

Is your point polling is sometimes wrong ?

[57Brave]

This conversation has gone from Trump is biggly appreciated by minorities ,there are trigger words people use while winking /nodding at systemic racism and bigotry to polling isn't perfect...

like I said, Trump has disapproval's in the mid 90's with that demographic. Not much room for optimism there

[Julio3000]

A few things I'd say to Jaw:

I think that there is a decided tendency on the part of some folks to choose to hear "you're racist" in the course of any discussion that touches on race.

There's a similar tendency to choose to interpret discussions of, say, white male privilege as "my accomplishments are being invalidated," whether not that is the case.

Sometimes this is done in good faith, sometimes in bad, but what I think is indisputable is that there is a cultural/political apparatus that is specifically stoking those perceived grievances, and it's every bit as powerful in its fashion as the pc apparatus that is so widely decried in this thread.

[Jaw]

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/new...beandmail.com&

How Legos helped build a classroom lesson on white privilege

Are the yellow Minifigures in the Lego universe white people? A Grade 8 social-studies class at Allan A. Martin Sr. Public School in Mississauga mulled this existential question on a recent afternoon while their teacher delivered a lesson on one of the most politically charged topics addressed in Canadian classrooms.

Mandi Hardy stood in front of a whiteboard and asked students to list what they believed to be the most important jobs in the world, then asked them to list people – real or fictional – who hold those positions. Almost all the doctors were from TV, among them Derek Shepherd from Grey's Anatomy and Dr. Phil. The same was true for the scientists and emergency-service workers that the students listed. Then, without explanation, Ms. Hardy began putting stars beside nearly all of the names – pausing when she reached a Lego character – and students quickly caught on to what she was doing.

"They're all white!" one called out.

The lesson of the day was white privilege, the idea that white people enjoy unearned advantages due to their race. Her exercise was meant to show that white people receive greater public profile for many of the occupations society deems to be the most important. This isn't a required subject, but one Ms. Hardy has elected to teach for the past four years.
....
When a Grade 11 anthropology teacher at a high school in Caledon, Ont., passed out Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack to her class last spring, one of her students, Logan Boden, was skeptical. He declared white privilege to be a racist ideology. The teacher responded, "Coming from a white male …," according to Mr. Boden.
....
Several compulsory courses at the University of British Columbia's faculty of education address white privilege, and associate dean of teacher education Wendy Carr says many teacher candidates are uncomfortable with those discussions.

"And that discomfort can range anywhere from guilt to shame to anger," she said. The goal is not to make these would-be teachers feel guilty about their own race, but to recognize the obligations that come with being from a more privileged place than some of their peers and students.

[Jaw]

A few things I'd say to Jaw:

I think that there is a decided tendency on the part of some folks to choose to hear "you're racist" in the course of any discussion that touches on race.

There's a similar tendency to choose to interpret discussions of, say, white male privilege as "my accomplishments are being invalidated," whether not that is the case.

Sometimes this is done in good faith, sometimes in bad, but what I think is indisputable is that there is a cultural/political apparatus that is specifically stoking those perceived grievances, and it's every bit as powerful in its fashion as the pc apparatus that is so widely decried in this thread.

Certainly there are people fanning the flames. But there are also universities grading applications on a racial curve. I was told in this thread that a white man's opinion on diversity is of less value (or perceived to be of less value) than a black woman's, and I have multiple coworkers who have let the break room know that men who aren't attracted to trans-females are "transphobic." That last article I posted talks about training future teachers to "recognize the obligations that come with being from a more privileged place." This stuff isn't made up.

[sturg33]

A few things I'd say to Jaw:

I think that there is a decided tendency on the part of some folks to choose to hear "you're racist" in the course of any discussion that touches on race.

There's a similar tendency to choose to interpret discussions of, say, white male privilege as "my accomplishments are being invalidated," whether not that is the case.

Sometimes this is done in good faith, sometimes in bad, but what I think is indisputable is that there is a cultural/political apparatus that is specifically stoking those perceived grievances, and it's every bit as powerful in its fashion as the pc apparatus that is so widely decried in this thread.

Yeah... in this thread we were told a white man having the exact same stance on something that a black woman had would be "woefully selfish"

We were told that people who are complaining about the PC culture are just simply racists

We were told that saying "working men and women" are codewords for racism.

Doesn't it get old?

[57Brave]

It is hard being white. The oppression is suffocating
please !!

why not just recognize there are people other than you with different sensibilities that don't necessarily see the world through your worldview. Nor you through their experience. Kinda like calling Puerto Ricans spics or Jews Kikes only this is a little subtler .

What I don't understand is why seemingly intelligent people are so threatened by treating others civilly. Taking into account ---- them !

You saw no racist overtones in Trumps Cinco de Mayo picture with a Taco Bell salad bowl ?
Any idea why that comes across insulting to Mexican Americans ?

On the other hand, deriding a Christian family that home schools their children. That is the same insensitive/insulting but does their sensitivity too get old ?
I guess it comes down to is - don't be an asshole .

Why go out of your way to hurt people with your words ?
Who are we to say who gets to be insulted and over what.

[Hawk]

You saw no racist overtones in Trumps Cinco de Mayo picture with a Taco Bell salad bowl ?

Expound on this, please.

[57Brave]

Apparently you didn't.

Sly once wrote a song that went "if you gotta ask, you'll never know ... "

[Julio3000]

Here's a choice anecdote that I'm going to pass along because it happened to me today, so it feels particularly fresh and germane to me in light of this discussion.

At work this morning I was talking to a guy (a middle-aged white guy) who, within the first couple of minutes of conversation, dropped two baldly racist comments on me. Now, this was not the first, nor the 15th, time this is happened to me in that context. Over the course of time, I've developed kind of a personal toolkit for dealing with it, which varies to some degree based on the sentiments expressed and my mood, I guess. My usual tack is to politely but assertively make clear that I am not ok with it, and that's what I did in this case. Sometimes that shuts down the conversation, sometimes it doesn't. In this particular case, it didn't, although the guy didn't express any remorse or reflection about what he'd said. Still, we had a fairly long conversation and made a genuine human connection. The guy wasn't a monster, and it's not my place to say whether he was a bad person, but he clearly held some pretty odious racist opinions.

So, that led me to wonder: how many of you/us who are talking up this resentment of so-called PC culture are actually confronted with it, in person, on a regular basis? How does it affect your life directly? Do you regularly get accused of racism, or told that your achievements are invalid because you're a white male?

I guess that seeing and experiencing racism directly, even to the very limited extent that I do, leaves me feeling a little cold towards the insistence that stridency towards diversity and inclusivity is the real evil.

[Hawk]

@57

I didn't ... because there isn't (hey, I could be a lyricist too).

What you are trying to do is akin to accusing millennials of cultural appropriation (which I think you've managed to confuse with 'racist overtones') for drinking margaritas on Cinco de Mayo or pairing avocado and toast.

[Hawk]

What were the comments, Julio?

[57Brave]

@57

I didn't ... because there isn't (hey, I could be a lyricist too).

What you are trying to do is akin to accusing millennials of cultural appropriation (which I think you've managed to confuse with 'racist overtones') for drinking margaritas on Cinco de Mayo or pairing avocado and toast.

Are you speaking for Mexican-Americans? and deciding what and when they should and shouldn't feel insulted.

That was Sly's point