Find a Cub fan that thinks giving up Torres for Chapman was a "stupid thing", and you will have found the first one.Originally Posted by bravesfanMatt
Trading a prospect - no matter how good - to get your franchise its first ring in 108 years will NEVER bother one of them.
Has there EVER been a statement and question a certain someone should absolutely never have made and asked publicly more than...
Kinda pathetic to see yourself as a message board knight in shining armor. How impotent does someone have to be in real life to resort to playing hero on a message board?
Then why in your infinite wisdom do you follow me around?
Has there EVER been a statement and question a certain someone should absolutely never have made and asked publicly more than...
Kinda pathetic to see yourself as a message board knight in shining armor. How impotent does someone have to be in real life to resort to playing hero on a message board?
This doesn't mean it wasn't stupid. Yes, fans will excuse anything if they win a championship. But getting rid of Torres may make it a little harder to win more in the future, and getting Chapman likely didn't really change anything. He blew 3 saves in the playoffs.
And just because it was stupid means they didn't do it.. which we all know they did. I agree, they were dumb. But they felt they needed a dominate closer to finish the team off with a happy ending..(
).. So they made the deal. Now, I doubt a team gives up 3 top prospects and pays for Zack's contract.. but I could see a team giving up a couple of pieces and asking the Braves to eat some of his remaining contract. If a team can get 2 more 'ACE' years out of his contract, then the remainder of his deal would be worth it...
I'm not trading Touki for anyone, unless he's involved in a deal for Archer or Quintana. Touki has the most raw upside of any of our prospects, IMO and he's shown signs of figuring it out.
This is another reason the less numbers-inclined of us aren't big on the new math of baseball and all the metrics.
As a fan, I'd far rather have my t-shirts, hats, and other memorabilia commemorating the Championship my team won and the memories that go along with that.
Numbers-guys can laminate their spreadsheets if that's their thing. I can all but guarantee you that Theo and Jed won't be leaving their posts in Chicago no matter how many different ways the numbers-savvy community shows the world that that trade was "stupid".
Last edited by clvclv; 02-03-2017 at 04:44 PM.
Has there EVER been a statement and question a certain someone should absolutely never have made and asked publicly more than...
Kinda pathetic to see yourself as a message board knight in shining armor. How impotent does someone have to be in real life to resort to playing hero on a message board?
What? My point is that I'm not sure Chapman really helped them win the championship. Your philosophy seems to be, who cares how smart the decisions made are, and who cares if we give up way too much future value for negligible current value, as long as you win one championship.
Championships are largely chance once you get into the playoffs. Are you telling me that had Cleveland closed that series out, it would have been a terrible move, but since they didn't, it's a move that can't be questioned?
People keep saying that about Archer and I don't see it. He has potential. And at times he has been good. And he K's alot of guys and has a good contract. All that makes him valuable. But, he's nowhere near, at least yet, as valuable as Quintana and I would argue not as valuable as Teheran.
He's one full year away from a 5.2 fWAR year, and his "disappointing" season last year was still 3.1 fWAR, barely under Teheran's 3.2 during one of his best ever years. So how is he not as valuable as Teheran? I agree wholeheartedly he's similar value wise to Quintana, though.
I think you are on the right track in terms of the Braves making this type of trade for a high quality starter sometime over the next year. But I would prefer they look for a deal on someone with 3 years or less remaining on their contract than the 5 years Greinke has remaining.
What would you expect him to average over the next five years? I would expect something like 3 WAR per year.
Teheran is 2 years younger and over the last 5 years has totaled 13.3 bWar while Archer has 10.8. In the last 4 years Teheran's WAR has been higher than Archer every year except 2015 when he had a bad year and Archer had his best year. Looking at the stats, they are reasonably close, they have similar contracts but Teheran is 2 yrs 3 months younger.
To me, neither have shown that they are a true ACE and neither are likely to. But Archer is entering the exit years of his prime while Teheran is just entering his.
Only thing you could add and I could have added in the other thread, was that JT does have the luxury of pitching in the NL least
Ventura's Stolen Bases
Hm, didn't realize Greinke would still make 120 mil over 5 years even after the deferred money. I'd think about it a little harder than initially suggested for that, he may not bounce back. I'd want more paid off.
I would love to be a fly on the wall if we offered to give back the prospect we bought for 14 million if the DBacks give us Greinke and eat 54.5 million in salary.
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Freshmaker (02-04-2017)
Would be worth it just to hear what they call LaRussa and Stewart
Cubs were desperate for a ring, i doubt they trade for Greinke.
Maybe a lesser tier type at the deadline. Arrieta, Lester, Hendricks is a solid top 3.
Cubs have Rizzo, Baez, Russell, and Bryant in their infield for years to come, where exactly would Torres play?
While Baez is hit or miss offensively, dude is a vacoom cleaner on defense, he'll win multiple gold gloves in the coming years.
I just got around to reading this thread. If certain members can't enter the discussion without the name-calling and derailing the thread, then don't enter the discussion.
Chopping With The Braves And Rolling With The Tide
BedellBrave (02-03-2017), blueagleace1 (02-04-2017), Hawk (02-03-2017), UNCBlue012 (02-06-2017)
Cubs were just an example. They were not really the point of the trade. You could swap any team.
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