Which is exactly the wrong goal for a rebuilding team. Dumping anyone should not be a priority when the contract would expire before the team is going to contend.Originally Posted by Nerfherders
Which is exactly the wrong goal for a rebuilding team. Dumping anyone should not be a priority when the contract would expire before the team is going to contend.
It's comical watching you try to undersell the Padres' return and pump up the Braves' return.
You are desperate to shine as a posi-Brave despite everyone unaffiliated with the Braves knowing the Padres got more in return for a less valuable asset.
You know, I know, anyone with half a clue knows it. Why you insist on defending this FO is odd, almost like Coppy is you uncle or something.
Trying to please me? They don't care about me or anyone else outside the organization. They have made a ton of bad moves. Ever hear of Hector Olivera?
You realize the money the Braves owed Upton was given to Markakis right?
Again it was a collection of moves to try and contend in 2017 when the new stadium opened. It was a mistake and the Braves are worse off for it.
Dalyn (06-01-2017)
It was the rebuild/reload straddle
The best way to do that is over an open cut slit trench
I agree with Ensheff 😳. When you know will not be competitive for two to three years....when you know you will most likely be under .500 AND will also be trading off many assets (that will clear cash in itself)...why move one of your biggest trade chips to get rid of a bad contract, when the goal is to gain as many prospects as possible. Let a bad contract run out. Especially when you turn around and sign Nick for $10 mil a year...you aren't gaining that much in salary relief and production does not matter that much on a below .500 team. You don't trade a young Wood and affordable Simmons.
Say what you want about what relief the BJ contract have us, but if you add poor spending in other areas....it's a wash and there were some definite prospects we lost out on.
Margot may well be the best asset that either team acquired in the deal. I think that's probable, but its actually still not a certainty by any means.
The other pieces of the deal for the Padres don't seem to be of much consequence.
.....
Through the Kimbrell trade, the Braves:
Acquired the #31 prospect in baseball
Acquired the #41 pick in the draft
upgraded in center field with Maybin, who they then flipped for Ian Krol
acquired an OF prospect with an upside they flipped to acquire the ability to sign Derian Cruz and/or Pache
You realize the Braves signed Markakis several months before they traded Kimbrel right?
What is true is that the Braves were simultaneously trying to be respectable, leave open a window for being decent in 2017 and building a long term system. I probably would have preferred a bigger teardown, but I actually think Coppy navigated the situation fairly intelligently given his apparent marching orders.
It didn't all work out, but beyond the Kemp trade I don't think he has done much to hamper the long term prospects of the organization. I think he'd have preferred to be really bad. I give him a passing grade for the rebuild all things considered, but I'm not nominating him for Cooperstown. It's not that hard to tear something down and trade for prospects. I'm just mystified how he gets killed by some while other GMs get praised for breaking up teams assembled mostly through their own incompetence.
Last edited by Southcack77; 05-31-2017 at 06:05 PM.
I am aware Nick was signed before hand. It's called poor planning.
The saddest thing is that the Braves missed on almost all their big trades.
Fried, Folty, Olivera, Wisler, Newcomb all appear to be misses... The only big trade that has been a slam dunk was Heyward, and that's only bc Dave Stewart is an idiot.
I never supported the tear down, but at least would have liked to seen some big time players acquired from our blue chippers.
Ultimately, the strength of our system is Albies (wren), acuna (wren), matian (intl sign), Anderson (draft), Allard (draft), soroka (draft)
Coppy just didn't do a great job in trades of our best assets
More on this... Had we not tore it down, we still would have been able to draft Allard, Soroka, and signed Matian... We may have missed out on Anderson... But we also would have been a watchable team
Do not suggest The Genius is a below average GM around these here parts.
I can't call folty a miss. Or rio from that deal
I can't call Newcombe a miss,.. I wouldn't deal him for tron but I still see high leverage to at the least
I think we won the jup deal. Fried is an elite prospect as late as last week from klaw. We got some use out of mallex and have gohara. Peterson is a nice person
I think most think Dustin will be around a 2 war player soon
Show me a gm that doesn't have bad deals.
That assessment can change in two years when the players acquired are actually given a chance to play in the big leagues.
That's not very likely at all.
That would require patience and humility.
Yeah, still need lots of data. The only one that was awful, and it was truly 2am double-bagger awful and completely unnecessary, was Olivera for Wood. Draft pick, blah blah. My comment at the time was, "I do not know if Alex Wood will ever be a top of the rotation guy, or even a serviceable starter. But he should be figuring that out in Atlanta, not LA." And I thought there was a decent chance he'd be quite good. I just didn't see him becoming Drysdale to Kershaw's Koufax.
Alex Wood is on the DL right now.
I think everyone thought he was a good pitcher but will he be able to stay healthy.
Natural Immunity Croc
Your idea is to just endlessly trade anyone good, continue to lose endlessly with no concept on to how to break that cycle.
I was te leader of trade Alex Wood before he gets hurt. But I hated that we traded him (and Peraza) for Olivera and Rodriguez. Rodrigeuz and Olivera gave us negative value. Wood's given the Dodgers solid performance though of course he's been hurt. Peraza was used by LA as a key (if not the key piece) in the Tood Frazier trade.
So basically we could have sat and probably offered Wood and Peraza for Frazier. Frazier being a very good 3B. Or just kept Wood and PEraza who've both been much better than Olivera or Rodriguez.
(
What we have left from that trade is Zack Bird (if he fails Rule 5) and the competitive balance pick . f the pick busts and Bird stays in LA where we get no compensation. We traded Wood and Peraza, for negative production of Olivera and no major league contributions from anyone else. Add in the lost value of trading Johnson who could have needed a mediocre prospect. And Avilan who's turned into a pretty damned solid middle reliever for the Dodgers. I think our lost WAR in that trade sits at someething like 4. And that's not factoring in whatever role Peraza played in the trade. Just his production.
I said when we made the trade that it was one of the worst trades I"ve ever seen made, and it looks just so much worse. The only advantage is we got rid of Olivera for Kemp. Kemp being massively overpaid, but still not as much of a SVOD.
Stockholm, more densely populated than NYC - sturg
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