Make no mistake, the Braves will be assuming significant risk whenever they decide to push their chips in and go for it. They are going to commit a large sum of money to some new player and/or unload a notable set of prospect assets to acquire that new player. If they are going to take that risk, then the reward needs to be a playoff appearance, not an 80 win season.
The Braves are not going to be playoff contenders next year, so there is no reason to take the risk now.
I'd agree except that Yelich is young and controlled at a reasonable price through 2022. If the Braves believe him as a player and he comes available now, it can be as much about winning in 2019 and beyond as it is in winning in 2018 (or 17).Originally Posted by Enscheff
I don't think Yelich is a particularly realistic scenario, but I would think the prospect package would go a long way to determining whether it was a good idea or not.
IDK. I think a lineup of: CF Inciarte, 2B Albies/Rodriguez, 1B Freeman, RF Stanton, LF Yelich/Kemp, 3B Prado, C Flowers/Suzuki, P Of the Day, SS Swanson is about as legit a line-up as you'll find and the defense looks good too if Kemp isn't in.
A Bench of Kemp/Yelcih, Adams, Albies/Rodriguez, Flowers/Suzuki, Camargo, Markakis is a rich bench and would hopefully be diminished by trade between now and opening day 2018, but it doesn't look bad, lotta flexibility and professional bats.
The pen could potentially be almost what it is now, just older and maybe with another LH arm: Johnson, Viz, Krol, Ramirez, Sam Freeman, Motte - not exactly great but not horrible
The SP could be: Folty, Teheran, Volquez, Young Stud, Young Stud...this is the weak part of the team and could really kill 2018. But, IF Folty continues to develop and Teheran regains decent #2 starter form, Volquez pitches at a decent #3 or #4 rate, then the Braves should be able to fill the last two slots with workable solutions from the 7 or so possibilities to pitch in the rotation starting 2018: Newk, Sims, Weigel, Gohara, Allard, Soroka, Fried. Let's face it, if the Braves can't get decent results out of at least 2 from those 7 in 2018, then the rebuild is stalled and likely won't be near over until 2020 or so.
My attraction to it is 2020: Inciarte, Albies, Freeman, Stanton, Yelich/Acuna, Swanson, 3B Demeritte/Riley, Catcher with Freeman, Stanton, Yelich and Inciarte the only ones really making significant money and a rotation full of young home grown guys who are cheap for years. You could see the payroll drop going into the 2020 season under $100M in known money and theoretically have $50M to spend on filling holes as needed.
So you get Stanton, Yelich for free? Because i see you post most of our prospects.
Everyone need to understand we trqde kimbrel and bj to get rip of a bad player plus a bad contract. Stanton is not a bad player maybe he may have a bad contract but right now he produce like a superstar.
Last edited by ixiXSolidXixi; 06-08-2017 at 09:54 PM.
I am NOT big on signing high dollar players to big deals. Most of the time, those contracts end badly. I am NOT big on trading major prospects away for a star. That also usually ends badly.
Drafting, International signings, acquire a high dollar player on a big contract if you must, but make it a Kemp type deal (one where you take on payroll for a few years, but don't give up any major prospects).
Adam Eaton is a perfect example. Maybe he comes back next year killing it, but they already lost a year of his playing time. For what they have up...ouch!!
The Yankees are a good example (I feel we are doing the same). Although they have a bigger payroll, they rarely trade their big prospects away. If they trade their MLB players, they always seem to get a ton for them and that doesn't happen much either. The Red Sox gave up half of their farm for Chris Sale, the Yankees kept all their guys. In a few years, the Red Sox will be rebuilding again and I'm afraid the Yankees with a great farm intact, many young MLB stars and a almost unlimited payroll, will be good for quite a while (man...I really hate the Yankees).
Yeah...well the whole premise, at least from me, was that you get Stanton, Yelich, Prado and Volquez for very little in return, something like Wilser, Blair, Harrington, Ruiz, Cumberland (Florida can spin it that they got two former top 100 pitchers who need a change of scenery, a ML ready 3B prospect, a college pitcher who could come quickly and a bat). In reality it is a big fat salary dump by the Marlins so they can sell the team.
If I have to give back significant pieces to get the deal done, then it doesn't work for me and I don't do it.
The original trade proposal is freaking hysterical
It is not a baseball trade, talent for talent. The original and current premise is based upon a report from MLB TV that the Marlins current ownership needs to get rid of payroll, specifically Stanton's contract, so they can sell the team. But, no team is willing to take that on.
Working from that basis, you start with the premise that the most important thing is to move the money for the current Marlins ownership. I, and everyone else, agrees that if that is not true, then the rest does not follow. Most people who have read from the beginning have been able to follow it pretty easily, whether they agree with it or not. Maybe they weren't laughing when they were comprehending.
Yelich would lose some value moving to a corner...offensive value at least.
I wonder if ozuna could be had for something reasobable.
I'm absolutely in on Ozuna or Yelich, but I doubt the Marlins even entertain the idea of trading with us on this scale.
We could have had ozuna I think the last two years pretty easily when he was scuffling.
Ivermectin Man
I'd love to get Yelich. But if Stanton is involved then Kemp has to be involved going back to them. They save a little money per year for a couple of years but save a ton in the long term. I bet they'd almost do that. Kemp for 2 years vs Stanton for 8. Yeah they'd bite. But I'd do say Newcomb, Touki, Albies, Kemp for Yelich and Stanton.
yes, I think substituting him for Yelich would make some of these trade proposals more realistic
unlike the others I think your proposal is too generous for the marlins
Correct, but every team that tries to acquire him will get the same present and future value. The Braves would have to outbid a team ready to take advantage of Yelich in the playoffs this year as well as all future production. The Braves will pay that price, and won't benefit from having him now. It's not worth it.
The same line of thinking led the team to keep Teheran, which was obviously the wrong move. The exact same line "he can be a part of the next good team in 2018/2019" led them to waste his value the last 3 years.
It's the exact same reason the Braves were not going to trade for Sale last offseason to help them in 2018. It would have been insanely stupid to outbid the "win now" Red Sox for a player that wouldn't help the Braves win now.
Same mistake, different players.
Do not make "win now" moves until the team is actually ready to win. When the time comes, there will be another Eaton, or Yelich, or Sale to acquire.
Last edited by Enscheff; 06-09-2017 at 11:06 AM.
Ok, I think we agree that it largely comes down to price. That's a sensible observation. You might be right that a contender will try and overpay. The Braves restrained themselves with Sale and the other White Sock pitcher. Hopefully they would do that here if the price got too steep.
Teheran, I think, was more of the Braves thinking that a major league pitcher under control was more valuable to their organizational need than whatever the offers they had on the table were. I don't know what the offers were, but it does seem that they shopped him pretty hard and tried to get a premium package. It also seems that baseball correctly did not believe that he was worth it.
I think the Marlins will take the same stance with Yelich as the Braves did with Kimbrel. You want Kimbrel?....then you are taking BJ. I think them moving Stanton would be the only reason they have to move Yelich.
Anyone else interested in Ozuna? I think he only has 2 years of control left and they are Arb years. But he's likely much less expensive. Maybe you could move Markakis as a salary dump back to the Marlins to take on Prado's money and/or Volquez's money.
2 years of Ozuna would likely allow you to be patient with Acuna and maximize Acuna's cheap years.
I think on the monster trade thought experiment you have to think....How good would the hybrid Marlins/Braves be?
Inciarte
Stanton
FF
Kemp
Flowers
Prado
Swanson
P
Albies
JT, Folty, Volquez, best two of Wisler, Blair, Newcombe, Sims, Weigel
If you get Yelich or Ozuna with Stanton then you have to find a place for Kemp. Markakis has to be a dump to the Marlins. Maybe they'd take Kemp and look to flip him to clear the decks.
I would still target Realmuto if we did the monster deal.
If you go for Yelich you are also likely giving up Albies and replacing him with Jace/SRod for a year before Demerritte comes up.
I wasn't talking about your trade... although it's just as silly. The original trade proposed was clv saying Peterson Sims Touki, etc... for Yelich which is a joke.
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