Yeah, I'm cool with dealing from pitching prospects to get a good TOR arm, that's not a big deal in my eyes. Value is value, and we stocked up on pitching prospects to acquire value. I just agree with everyone else that the big bat prospects shouldn't be available.Originally Posted by Preacher
jpx7 (07-12-2017)
I definitely am Matt. I am blessed to meet a lot of our prospects but also I don't only stat watch, I compare what scouts say to what I get to witness. I'm going to mourn any big trade. Only because I don't want to gut the system (deep as it is) if we're not a deep playoff team. Acuna, Maitan and Albies should be untouchable but won't be if you are talking Q, Archer. I'd rather be patient.
Last edited by Deester11; 07-12-2017 at 10:21 AM.
jpx7 (07-12-2017)
http://thesportsdaily.com/angels-win...plash-version/ Hahahahahahaha that trade #6 proposal
Angels send RHP Cam Bedrosian, 1B C.J. Cron, AA OF Michael Hermosillo, A+ C Taylor Ward, and R RHP Chris Rodriguez to the Braves and C Carlos Perez to the Rockies
Rockies send A+ OF Wes Rogers and A RHP David Hill to the Braves
Braves send 1B Freddie Freeman and RHP Jim Johnson to the Angels
I think they meant Adams
So, if we're steadfast on not trading one of our top guys could we be shopping a package of good 2nd tier guys to see who will take it. There could be a good package out of these guys who are not in the top 8. I doubt the White Sox would be the team to go for it though. The A's and Beane are a little more creative.
Gohara, Pache, Wentz, Wilson, Camargo, Sims, Cumberland
Ultimately I think we stand pat and make a run at Archer or Stroman in the offseason.
Nope if you read the writeup it's clearly Freeman. They are smoking some crack.
Garmel (07-12-2017)
Gave me a good laugh that I had to share
This is pretty much the whole point. We're all really high on these guys because they're our prospects - if they were in someone else's organization, not so much. We've seen one after another flame out, several of ours recently. Folks here have already soured on Swanson to a point, Blair and Wisler have taken steps back (even though they're still very young), Newcomb's now looked like - well, Newcomb - for a couple of starts now, Sims looks ready for a chance for a stretch of a handful of starts and then gets blown up. It happens to tons of them, no matter which Top 100 list they happen to be on.
I'd love to keep all of them until they develop fully just like everyone else here. The difference is I want to see an improved product at the big league level at some point soon. Sooner or later you need to quit wasting Freeman's best years, or you need to go on and trade him for another pile of prospects who aren't going to ever turn out to be as good as he is too.
Has there EVER been a statement and question a certain someone should absolutely never have made and asked publicly more than...
Kinda pathetic to see yourself as a message board knight in shining armor. How impotent does someone have to be in real life to resort to playing hero on a message board?
Please don't trade for a young, controllable, iffy pitcher. The farm is full of young, controllable, iffy pitchers. Patience.
Wait it out, let some talent graduate, then trade from surplus to fill needs.
That's a lot of guys coming our way, most of it marginal talent. I doubt Adams could fetch that, but there's no way I'd part with Freeman for the package mentioned. Taylor Ward can't hit for sh*t.
Chico, there's nothing the A's have that I would want.
PS--Just read the entire Sportsdaily thread from the Angels' fans. Those kids need to get outside and head to the playground. I hear there's plenty of room on the swingset.
Last edited by 50PoundHead; 07-12-2017 at 10:58 AM.
Is Quintana a stud pitcher though?
And I'd be fine with it if it were later in this process. I think by next trade deadline, this team will be more legit and ready for it.
If you trade a few of the pitching prospects now and the guys you keep are the ones who end up getting hurt and flaming out, well now suddenly there isn't much depth and by 2020 you're back in the same spot we were 2-3 years ago.
Since 2012, Quintana's stats relative to all Ps with at least 500 IP: 1055.1 IP (17th), 7.59 K/9 (75th), 2.42 BB/9 (50th), 0.84 HR/9 (30th), 3.51/3.52/3.82 ERA/FIP/xFIP (32nd/30th/53rd), 21.7 fWAR (12th). So draw your own conclusions as to if you think that's a stud pitcher profile.
What should be the cost of Gray and Doolittle??
The discussion has devolved into whether or not Q is a "stud pitcher"?
He is a 3-4 win guy with an affordable contract. He is likely better than any pitcher the Braves will have in the rotation for the foreseeable future.
The value in that combination is objectively quantifiable. Whether or not he is a "stud pitcher" is silly subjective nonsense.
The good news with the A's is they are usually more likely to accept a package that consists of a a larger quantity of lesser prospects that are more MLB ready.
I'm not saying they will take the Braves castoffs, but they will value guys like Wisler, Blair, DPete and Rio much more than most other organizations because they are ready to contribute NOW and take up virtually no payroll. Again, Mallex would have been a good chip to have if the Braves wanted Sonny Gray.
Yes, the A's are much mor likely to value quantity and major league readiness. I'd throw Camargo and Sims in there as well. Both of those guys could be a peak value right now. I'd also look to peddle Cumberland who could be DH bound.
The A's might value Mallex right now,. but I'm sure they'd like Gohara as well.
I don't see how we get a Q or Gray w/o giving up Albies. I'd rather give up Swanson than Albies.
But if I could get away with Albies + one of Anderson/Wentz + Pache + some other guys then I think I'd have to do that for Q. If it's Anderson and Wentz I think I'd wait until the winter. There just aren't that many teams who can do better than Braves for a package. There are a lot of teams who can offer a better FV package by including more top end guys. But if the Sox are willing to do two top end guys like Albies and Anderson + some interesting guys then I think we'd win now or later.
I wouldn't feel good about it though....
Part of me says if you get Q you have to keep Tehran. Another part says I don't trade Albies unless I can get a guy like Happ to play 2B for me for Tehran. Demerritte by all acounts is a 70 defense at 2B but I don't know if we can have him and swanson swinging and missing at the bottom of the line up forever.
Internal debate settled....For Q I'd do Albies, Wentz and Pache and if that's not enough I'd wait. Contender's premium aside, you only get a chance to get studs when they are available. I'm not paying more right now.
If the As are willing to do the poo poo platter then I'd rather risk Gray's injuries and keep albies. They can have Wisler, Blair, Simms, Pache (headliner) and Mueller/Ruiz. Not sure why'd they take that...
They wouldn't. The point is they would be much more willing to take a package of Allard and DPete because they would value DPete more than most other teams.
As long as the Braves don't trade Albies, Acuna or Maitan for pitching, I can't get too mad at any deal that improves the MLB team for 2018 and beyond. I consider Wright the best pitching prospect in the system, but I could even live with him being part of the cost for a pitcher like Q or Archer.
I may disagree with upgrading the roster this year at the deadline, but buying Q now won't be astronomically more expensive than buying him in the offseason. The Braves will be needlessly assuming risk, but it's at least a defensible, albeit inefficient, move.
I would prefer they don't buy ANY SPs, but if they do, it won't be a terribly inefficient use of resources as long as they don't use Albies, Acuna or Maitan to do it.
jpx7 (07-12-2017)
If you are looking at Braves needs, my opinion of the order is:
1. 3B- It doesn't look like their is a real 3B in the entire organization right now. Of course guys like Rio, Riley, etc. may eventually develop. But right now, they are struggling and don't show any overwhelming traits that says they will eventually break out.
2. OF - Acuna and Inciarte appear to be part of the long term solution. But there isn't really anything real above the GCL that you can count on moving forward as part of a long term core. Pache is going to be trade bait since his upside is essentially Inciarte and his bat doesn't play on the corners.
3. C - Yes Flowers has been a revelation and Suzuki has played well but neither are part of the long term future. Flowers is essentially Greg Olson.
4. 2B - Nice to have Albies. He should be a good player. BUT, his place on a team is as a LO hitter who's going to set the table. The Braves already have that in Inciarte (and potentially Swanson). Albies is fine as a long term piece but unless he turns into Altuve, Kipnis, Pedroia, Cano, Baez, Odor, LeMahieu, etc. then he is going to be just an "ok" 2B. Think Brandon Drury or Joe Panik. If, I say IF, the Braves believe they MUST trade a minor league bat of consequence, it has to be Albies. (Things change of course if Swanson isn't here and Albies could play either short or second).
5. SP - If the Braves have spent 3 rebuilding years stockpiling pitching but still feel the need to deal for - not a superstar but a good 2, someone like Q, then the rebuild has failed to a certain extent. You have to remember that Albies and Acuna were here at the beginning of the rebuild. Players brought back in return for talent shipped away have been guys like: Wilser, Blair, Folty, Fried, Touki, Gohara, Newcomb, Sanchez, etc. Right now Folty is an erratic #3 and Newcomb is an iffy 4/5. Everything else is either a bust OR still in development. The drafted guys don't have much to do with trading talent away and have more to do with having a terrible record and drafting (we hope) wisely. If you can trade some of the bust talent or selected still in development talent, then I think you look at that. But, to trade away your drafted talent, when the traded-for talent has been so mediocre is a recipe for disaster.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote