Odds of all of Newk, Folty, Gohara, Anderson, Soroka, Wright and Allard all panning out is slim.
Even if we traded Gohara, Anderson for Gray, we'd still have pitchers like Wiegel, Muller, Wentz, Touki, Sims, Blair, Wilson, Fried, along with Allard, Soroka and Wright.
Thats still a buttload of pitching prospects to use in trades or to bring up to the big league team.
I would offer Touki and Wentz for Gray.
"I am a victim, I will tell you. I am a victim."
"I am your retribution."
Oohh... Negatory Ghost Rider.Originally Posted by nsacpi
Ivermectin Man
The package I'd offer the A's for Gray would also be to get Matt Chapman back
To spice it up I'd offer touki wentz jace Peterson and Blair for gray and a minor leaguer
Get off my lawn!
For someone who portrays himself as intelligent, you sure do just jump to your pre-established memes pretty easily.
Gray is a good pitcher, and you have him for the next 3.5 years. We feel reasonably confident of that, though there is still some risk.
Gohara and Anderson are good pitching prospects, with considerably more risk. We know that.
We also know that most of the Braves' assets skew toward the future, not the next couple years. And we know that the upside of those two is 2 good pitchers for 6+ years each. The downside is nothing. And the most realistic likelihood is in the middle and at least somewhat open to interpretation.
Personally, I don't think we should be trading multiple future good assets for a good player for now, even with an extra 3 years after this one. I think Gohara will soon be a top 15-20 prospect, and I think Anderson has the talent to end up somewhere a little behind that.
Even if Gray ends up with more value over that span than those two combined in their initial contract, I think it's at least close, and I want to lean toward the future.
If you think that amounts to, 'Pitching is risky? Sell everything for more!' then you are not the intelligent, logical poster you claim yourself to be.
Hasn't Gray had pretty significant shoulder issues?
I think the Astros get him, and it might not be enough.
Ivermectin Man
His shoulder problem was just a minor strain thought to be just tired from overworking after such a long layoff coming back this year. The big issues he had that kept him out so long was a forearm strain and a strained trapezius... before those two injuries, he was extremely durable with 2 straight 200+ inning seasons. He has shown that he's healthy this season. I think his injury problems are overblown.
Also, his velocity is up more than ever, so that's more evidence to me that the shoulder thing is nothing.
Gray's past 4 starts have been 6 innings, 6 innings, 7 innings, 8 innings, and given up 1 run, 1 run, 2 runs, and 0 runs.
Seems to be back on track lately.
BoneThrower (07-17-2017), Tapate50 (07-17-2017)
Really, if we can get Gray without giving up Maitan, Albies, Acuna, Soroka, or Gohara, it would be an absolute steal and a fantastic deal for our club.
2.5
"I am a victim, I will tell you. I am a victim."
"I am your retribution."
Those are the guys I would not give up along with Wright.
"I am a victim, I will tell you. I am a victim."
"I am your retribution."
We could extent him for another year
Get off my lawn!
Sorry, yes.
It's about shifting pitching risk. Not super complicated.
As these pitching prospects continue to drop like flies, maybe you'll start to understand.
We are already starting to see it with the Braves, and we have seen it happen with the pitchers the ChiSox got from the Nats. We have seen it with the Mets.
I'm guessing no amount of data will make some of you most ardent pozzies admit the FO is making a mistake.
Last edited by Enscheff; 07-17-2017 at 03:43 PM.
Agree on Wright too and Waters!
Kinda wonder if Touki, Wentz, and Pache might get it done.
Has there EVER been a statement and question a certain someone should absolutely never have made and asked publicly more than...
Kinda pathetic to see yourself as a message board knight in shining armor. How impotent does someone have to be in real life to resort to playing hero on a message board?
Tigers willing to send cash with Verlander:
https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/...lude-cash.html
Whether or not a deal for the Braves makes sense all depends on how much they are willing to send.
Yes, I understand this is your argument. Pitching prospects are risky, so we should be reducing that risk however we can. I get that; you're right, it's not complicated.
But we have to have pitching, and we have to have enough of it to field a team capable of winning something significant. That is the goal. If concluding that pitching is risky, therefore we should steer clear of it, you're going to do a few things:
1) Draft very little pitching, and all that you draft will be college pitching.
2) Trade pitching prospects at any opportunity.
3) Sign the least risky pitching possible.
But you're going to end up with a farm system with very little pitching, especially any with a high ceiling, and you're going to have to shell out a ton of money in free agency. Since you do have to have pitching, at the end of the day, the discussion is and has always been how to end up with the most of it in the most efficient and effective way.
I'm not saying it would be dumb to trade Gohara and Anderson (and likely more) for Gray. I see the merits of it. I just disagree with it in this specific instance. You are a constant supporter of the philosophy that you trade all pitching with 2 years of control left. So we get Gray for this sweet stretch run for a team probably not truly capable of anything significant, then...what? Trade him in the offseason? For likely less than you gave up for him?
Or do you keep him past your 2-year line, knowing that he himself also carries the constant risk of injury?
My philosophy is not that we should stockpile as much pitching as we possibly can, to the detriment of other areas, because pitching is risky. But since we do have to ultimately have pitchers and the good ones cost a ton of money on the FA market, I do think it is wise to have enough to counter the bust rate to the extent that you likely end up with at least 2-3 good ones.
But regardless of overall philosophy, this single move comes down to value, as all deals do. I think Gohara and Anderson, even with their potential to bust and get injured, offer us more, given our timeline to truly compete and their talent level, than Gray does for this half a season and two more. It is not because pitching is risky, that has nothing to do with it. And I have disagreed with the FO on plenty. The fact that you think anyone who disagrees with you on anything is a stupid 'pozzy,' again, supports the notion that your arguments are weak. You bring good data and opinions. Your ability to understand another's point of view and intelligently argue it? Not good.
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