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Thread: Russia Collusion Scandal (aka A Leftist fantasy)

  1. #6621
    I <3 Ron Paul + gilesfan sturg33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julio3000 View Post
    The thing you have to keep in mind with sturg is that he’s very invested in this proffered image of rationality and evidence-based opinions...but only to extent that he tells you he is. On the field, so to speak, the results are a little different. He chose to **** the Seth Rich chicken because there was “no evidence” that Russia was behind the email thefts. So advancing an obvious conspiracy theory with zero factual underpinning was enough to outweigh the opinions of the intelligence and law enforcement communities, to say nothing of common sense based on past actions, because of...Iraq, I guess? So when evidence was presented in Federal court sufficient to indict specific individuals from the GRU for the hacks, his response was just to mushmouth a bit and pivot to “well, there’s no evidence of collusion.”

    Sturg’s got no real interest in evidence, he’s just dug in on a position that’s become less and less tenable as time passes, and “evidence” is just a canard that takes advantage of the still large swathes of details that are still unknowable to the public. The fact that Trump and company have lied consistently and provably throughout the process—to the public, to investigators, to Congress—is apparently not suggestive enough of wrongdoing to start digging out of that hole. He’s staked out a rather safe position: unless Vladimir Putin is personally running Trump as an intelligence asset, there’s nothing to see. Just like Russia couldn’t have influenced the election unless they actually changed vote totals. I mean, it’s tiresome to me, and it seems like a hard way to go through life, but that’s the path he’s chosen.
    What is your prediction of the conclusion of this?

  2. #6622
    I <3 Ron Paul + gilesfan sturg33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald Rump View Post
    Wait wait wait

    You're not furious about obstruction of justice??

    Sorry I came back. Echo Chambers are just too unhealthy though

  3. #6623
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    Quote Originally Posted by sturg33 View Post
    Wait wait wait

    You're not furious about obstruction of justice??

    Sorry I came back. Echo Chambers are just too unhealthy though
    I don't even think you get the joke, nor was the joke intended at you.

    In regards to the tweet, weird timing of it. Not sure what more can be scrutinized from it. But it certainly gave you a big boner.
    Forever Fredi


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    Giuliani vented to a friend that Mueller’s office stopped communicating with him after he delivered Trump’s answers. “They’ve gone dark,” the friend who spoke with Giuliani said.


    Poor Rudolph.
    Forever Fredi


  5. #6625
    It's OVER 5,000! 57Brave's Avatar
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    the podcast I recommended earlier today also included this info nugget:


    Maddow Blog
    ‏Verified account @MaddowBlog
    Nov 29

    Matthew Whitaker was notified about what was going to happen today,

    but he wasn't asked. That seems important.


    point being he did not do Trump's bidding and let this deal (Cohen plea) go through.
    By law Mueller can not act with out the blessing of the Justice Department
    Apparently Trump has not supplanted Rosenstein with "his guy"

    or his guy, like the rest of h"his guys" didn't understand what was happening.
    Either way not a good look
    The GOP is currently the party of indicted criminals and racists and relies upon fear-mongering to conceal its lack of ideas.

  6. #6626
    It's OVER 5,000! 57Brave's Avatar
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    The GOP is currently the party of indicted criminals and racists and relies upon fear-mongering to conceal its lack of ideas.

  7. #6627
    Expects Yuge Games nsacpi's Avatar
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    So did Michael Cohen, acting on behalf of the Trump Organization, offer Putin a $50 million penthouse.

  8. #6628
    It's OVER 5,000! Runnin's Avatar
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    Bigly?

    The Next Four Days Are Everything



    The Palmer Report, ymmv

    It all starts tomorrow when Robert Mueller is scheduled to finally file the plea deal sentencing memo for Michael Flynn, after a full year of cooperation. That filing will include details about the crimes that Flynn committed. NBC News is reporting tonight that Mueller will make the Flynn filing public. So after all this mystery about what Flynn was really doing with Trump and Russia during the election and the transition period, and what he’s secretly given up to Mueller, we’re about to get answers. But it’s just the start.

    This Friday, Robert Mueller is scheduled to file a sentencing memo for Paul Manafort, which will include a list of the things that Manafort was lying about when he violated the terms of the plea deal. Michael Isikoff of Yahoo News is confirming tonight that Mueller will make the Manafort filing public. Also on Friday, Mueller will file the sentencing memo for arguably his most valued cooperating witness, Michael Cohen; that document should detail the ways in which Cohen has helped Mueller to nail Donald Trump.

    In other words, just about everything is about to come out in the wash. By the time these three Robert Mueller court filings in four days have played out, the American public will have a rather extensive picture of the Trump-Russia criminal conspiracy, and Donald Trump’s role in it. Buckle up, because we’ve all been waiting for this.
    FF - BB, BB, 2B, HR, 2B, HR, 1B, BB, BB, 1B, BB, BB, HR

  9. #6629
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    Tuesday’s sentencing hearing for Michael Flynn, and memos expected later in the week detailing portions of the investigation related to Paul Manafort and Michael Cohen, have a number of pundits opining that the Russia investigation is all but over. Again. Across DC, and TV, the desire to slap a bow on the special counsel appointment and flip off the lights seems to be near fever pitch. But there are reasons to believe that the investigation led by Robert Mueller may be a long way from over—it might not even have reached cruising altitude. Here is a quick list of issues, and people, still hanging out there


    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/201...till-premature
    The GOP is currently the party of indicted criminals and racists and relies upon fear-mongering to conceal its lack of ideas.

  10. #6630
    It's OVER 5,000! 57Brave's Avatar
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    18/ MUELLER: "Given the defendant’s substantial assistance and other considerations

    set forth below, a sentence at the low end of the guideline range—including a sentence

    that does not impose a term of incarceration—is appropriate and warranted."


    This is very bad news for Trump.


    https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/sta...30504924626944
    Last edited by 57Brave; 12-04-2018 at 11:07 PM.
    The GOP is currently the party of indicted criminals and racists and relies upon fear-mongering to conceal its lack of ideas.

  11. #6631
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    Stone invokes 5th amendment.

    "The mob takes the Fifth. If you're innocent, why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?” - 45 not that long ago.

    Sure it's Stone's right to take the 5th, just wanted to point out how often Trump tweets things he does the exact opposite of.

    "Flynn is a good man, you should let it go" is what he said to Comey. Well, Comey got let go instead. Mueller is technically letting Flynn off the hook for cooperating, so Trump should be happy for him, no? Or is he going to go on a morning tweet storm calling Flynn weak and a coward like Cohen.
    Forever Fredi


  12. #6632
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    What did Flynn give Mueller? I want to know now!
    FF - BB, BB, 2B, HR, 2B, HR, 1B, BB, BB, 1B, BB, BB, HR

  13. #6633
    Expects Yuge Games nsacpi's Avatar
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    It seems clear that Flynn gave important information not just on the collusion issues but some other matters under investigation.

    On collusion, the Mueller memo notes that "the defendant has assisted the SCO investigation concerning links or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the Trump campaign." Moreover, it states that "his cooperation was particularly valuable because he was one of the few people with long-term and firsthand insights regarding events under investigation by the SCO."

    Flynn appears to have provided information on other matters under investigation. It is difficult to say what those other matters were given the redactions in those parts of the Mueller memo. I will speculate that it has to do with the so-called "Trump/Putin Mideast Marshall Plan Concept," a plan pushed by a company with ties to Flynn and something that became a priority for the White House when Trump took office. It has faded from public attention for various reasons. However, it is likely to be of central interest to Mueller given that it appears to be a potential vehicle for implementing the quid pro quo that the Russians and the Trump campaign worked out. A number of Middle Eastern countries and parties appear to have been involved. And Mueller appears to have found a cooperating witness in George Nader who very likely has helped him develop that particular part of his investigation.
    “It's a shame the White House has become an adult day care center. Someone obviously missed their shift this morning.” Senator Bob Corker

  14. #6634
    A Chip Off the Old Rock Julio3000's Avatar
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    One of the issues that was cleared up, and one I mused about a lot, was why Flynn took the charge and cooperated if a)he believed he was innocent and b) the case against him was weak, both of which were reported by (relatively more reputable) conservative media. I figured that the SCO had him on more than the single charge, perhaps on some of the Turkey stuff and his lobbying. Per the memo, that seems to have been the case.

    I’d be curious to know what’s going on with KT McFarland. She was Flynn’s deputy at NSC, was at Mar-a-Lago relaying instructions to him during the Kislyak calls, and apparently lied to Congress about her role (though I think, maybe, she amended her testimony). So she was let go from NSC and nominated as Ambassador to Singapore, but the nomination was withdrawn when it was clear she wouldn’t be confirmed.

    First, and perhaps tangentially, I always thought the Ambassadorship smelled like a kind of a bribe to stay on-side. I’d love to know what the internal deliberations were. Next, she’s probably important to some of what Flynn was involved in on NSC. Finally, she was apparently recommended for the job by Paul Erickson, who’s now gotten a target letter from federal prosecutors (not Mueller) for his involvement with Maria Butina’s espionage activities. Unfortunate coincidence?

  15. #6635
    It's OVER 5,000! cajunrevenge's Avatar
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    I am gonna be pissed if Flynn doesnt go to prison and they doesnt get any meaningful convictions like one of the Trumps or Pence. Tired of these high level criminals getting away with it.
    "State power feeds on crisis and enemies"

    John T. Flynn 1944

  16. #6636
    Expects Yuge Games nsacpi's Avatar
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    Interesting that Mueller is looking at RT and its guests.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...P=share_btn_tw
    “It's a shame the White House has become an adult day care center. Someone obviously missed their shift this morning.” Senator Bob Corker

  17. #6637
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    Quote Originally Posted by cajunrevenge View Post
    I am gonna be pissed if Flynn doesnt go to prison and they doesnt get any meaningful convictions like one of the Trumps or Pence. Tired of these high level criminals getting away with it.
    That's usually how crime organizations are prosecuted.

    You flip one of the soldiers, the soldiers flip on the Caporegimes, the Capos flip on the Underbosses who deliver you the head of the family.

    Let's say Trump is head of the crime family. Eric, Don Jr., Kushner are his underbosses with Cohen being the council. Cohen deals directly with the Boss but doesn't share everything with the other three. He knows where the bodies are.

    Jr., Eric, Kushner are one level removed from the Don. Manafort, Stone are probably right below them in the pecking order. They're Caporegimes, aka Lieutenants. They may deal with the Boss directly, or they deal with one of the underbosses. That way they can't directly indict the Boss. They have to flip one of the guys above them in order for the government to touch the Boss.

    It's likely Flynn was just a capo. Under the capos you have the foot soldiers like a Jerome Corsi (someone two to three levels removed from Trump. Corsi is important because he can flip on Stone). Flynn was ordered to do dirty work (likely by Junior or Cohen with Donald's blessing). He probably can or can't indict Trump directly, but he's probably key to delivering Jr. to Mueller.

    The problem with the Trump org is it's so disorganized these traditional crime family roles are all intertwined.


    Should be

    Trump | Head

    Cohen | Counselor (No insulation between the Boss. Knows everything Donald knows, knows where the money is laundered, where the bodies are buried. Probably knows MORE than Donald knows just to protect Donald from certain stuff.)

    Eric - Jr. - Jared | Underbosses (No insulation between the Boss, but doesn't know everything the Cohen knows. This is why Jr. dealt with Stone/wikileaks directly instead of Sr. Also why it's important if it's revealed the private number Jr. called directly after the Trump Tower meeting was Sr. Because that would be Sr. had directly knowledge of the Trump Tower meeting. If Sr. lies about that on his take home test to Mueller, Mueller would know based on testimony from Jr., if Jr. cooperates, or Cohen or Stone).

    Stone - Manafort - Flynn | Caporegimes (They probably haven't dealt directly with Trump. Have one level of insulation above them. They can't directly flip on Trump, but they probably directly dealt with Jr. which is close enough).

    Corsi - Lewandowski - etc. | Foot Soldiers (They probably haven't directly dealt with the criminal side of the Trump family. So they can't directly flip or indict Senior or the Underbosses. But it's why Corsi has been a key to try to flip on Stone. If Corsi flips on Stone then Stone will be pressured to flip and it goes higher up).

    The smaller guys cooperate, and it goes up the food chain until you can nail the head of the family and shut down the syndicate. But as I said above, the Trump Org is so poorly run you have too many lieutenants. It's likely everyone above Corsi and Lewandowski dealt with Trump directly. But Cohen so far has been the biggest fish caught. Junior would be the biggest prize because he's the son. So either Junior flips on dad, or dad agrees to cooperate to save Junior. With Senior it's a who knows. It's likely he'd let Junior out there to fend for himself based on stuff I've read.

    FWIW I don't think Pence is involved with the shady business dealings of the Trump org side of the family. But I think he may have enough direct knowledge of the Flynn stuff and Russian stuff that his position is just as fragile. I don't think he'll be treated in court like Junior or Sr. will be, but I think his dream of being President will be very short lived. I also don't think Bannon has anything directly tying him to the Crime side of the family, since he was just more of a political consultant. So I don't even think the court would treat Bannon like Corsi.
    Forever Fredi


  18. #6638
    It's OVER 5,000! cajunrevenge's Avatar
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    I am fine with that as long as we get meaningful convictions.
    "State power feeds on crisis and enemies"

    John T. Flynn 1944

  19. #6639
    A Chip Off the Old Rock Julio3000's Avatar
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    I have a pretty low opinion of Flynn, but I will at least give him credit for being smart enough to be the first to the table, hire good lawyers then stfu and listen to them.

  20. #6640
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julio3000 View Post
    I have a pretty low opinion of Flynn, but I will at least give him credit for being smart enough to be the first to the table, hire good lawyers then stfu and listen to them.
    Apparently his lawyers are not very fond of Trump. So I wonder if Trump will add them into his last of angry Democrats colluding against him.
    Forever Fredi


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