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Thread: Russia Collusion Scandal (aka A Leftist fantasy)

  1. #6821
    if my thought dreams could be seen goldfly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julio3000 View Post
    Well, that’s fine, but I guess there’s an obvious follow-up question here.
    na man

    the russian spies and the trump organization just met in a secret meeting they have been lying about to talk about the most recent nbc and nate silver polling that everyone can easily get

    what's wrong with you man?
    "If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin. It is a very great mistake to imagine that the object of loyalty is the authority and interest of one individual man, however dignified by the applause or enriched by the success of popular actions.” Samuel Adams

    "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act" George Orwell

  2. #6822
    Shift Leader thethe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldfly View Post
    na man

    the russian spies and the trump organization just met in a secret meeting they have been lying about to talk about the most recent nbc and nate silver polling that everyone can easily get

    what's wrong with you man?
    A meeting whereby the 'spy' was specifically cleared by the obama administration and then met with Fusion GPS before and after the meeting.

    Things that make you go hmmm....
    Warm feelings guy!

  3. #6823
    Expects Yuge Games nsacpi's Avatar
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    Remember Manafartov had yuge debts to Deripaska.

  4. #6824
    Shift Leader thethe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nsacpi View Post
    Remember Manafartov had yuge debts to Deripaska.
    How could we forget? You may have mentioned it before.
    Warm feelings guy!

  5. #6825
    A Chip Off the Old Rock Julio3000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thethe View Post
    A meeting whereby the 'spy' was specifically cleared by the obama administration and then met with Fusion GPS before and after the meeting.

    Things that make you go hmmm....
    I think he was talking about Manafort’s meeting with Kilimnik, not the Trump Tower meeting with Veselnitsksya—I get that it’s hard to keep them all straight, particularly amidst all the lying.

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    Expects Yuge Games nsacpi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thethe View Post
    How could we forget? You may have mentioned it before.
    Well it is unlikely that Manafartov would ask GRU agent Kilimnik to pass on this polling information to Deripaska just for ****s and giggles.
    “It's a shame the White House has become an adult day care center. Someone obviously missed their shift this morning.” Senator Bob Corker

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    Expects Yuge Games nsacpi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julio3000 View Post
    I think he was talking about Manafort’s meeting with Kilimnik, not the Trump Tower meeting with Veselnitsksya—I get that it’s hard to keep them all straight, particularly amidst all the lying.
    Like a Russian novel. Cast of thousands. All memorable in their own miserable way. So far Felix Sater is my favorite character and he has mostly lurked in the shadows so far. Wait till he takes center stage.
    “It's a shame the White House has become an adult day care center. Someone obviously missed their shift this morning.” Senator Bob Corker

  9. #6828
    Shift Leader thethe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julio3000 View Post
    I think he was talking about Manafort’s meeting with Kilimnik, not the Trump Tower meeting with Veselnitsksya—I get that it’s hard to keep them all straight, particularly amidst all the lying.
    He specifically noted the Trump organization meeting so the assumption is that there were more Trump representatives then just Cohen who was at first untrustworthy but I guess now trustworthy. Hard to keep up with all the flip flopping on your side.
    Warm feelings guy!

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    Quote Originally Posted by nsacpi View Post
    Well it is unlikely that Manafartov would ask GRU agent Kilimnik to pass on this polling information to Deripaska just for ****s and giggles.
    Hey listen - Maybe at some point one of your theories will come true.

    But so far your "this is big" moments have came up lame. But please continue sir and ignore all the other signs of a conspiracy to frame.

    You don't seem to want to talk about Misfud anymore....Why is that?
    Warm feelings guy!

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    Expects Yuge Games nsacpi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thethe View Post
    Hey listen - Maybe at some point one of your theories will come true.

    But so far your "this is big" moments have came up lame. But please continue sir and ignore all the other signs of a conspiracy to frame.

    You don't seem to want to talk about Misfud anymore....Why is that?
    ah western spy Misfud...i avoid talking about him cuz it would undermine the case for collaboration and clinch the case for deep state setup

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    Quote Originally Posted by nsacpi View Post
    ah western spy Misfud...i avoid talking about him cuz it would undermine the case for collaboration and clinch the case for deep state setup
    Well when you ignore a clear instance of setup and the shadiness of Fusion GPS then sure your case looks better.

    But man, I remember when Mifsud was the lynchpin of it all and thats all you had to think about.
    Warm feelings guy!

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    A Chip Off the Old Rock Julio3000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thethe View Post
    Hey listen - Maybe at some point one of your theories will come true.

    But so far your "this is big" moments have came up lame. But please continue sir and ignore all the other signs of a conspiracy to frame.

    You don't seem to want to talk about Misfud anymore....Why is that?
    Mifsud isn’t much of a topic anymore because he’s completely disappeared. The only clue to his whereabouts was given by an associate of his, a Swiss lawyer nicely wired into Russia, who says he’s totally fine and living under an assumed name, and also that he’s a Western intelligence asset...which sounds totally unimpeachable, considering the source. I guess that’s the peg that your frame job hypothesis hangs on?

    But, evasions aside, what do you think of the news that Manafort was apparently misleading investigators about meeting with Kilimnik and passing internal polling info to him? How does that fit into the frame-up narrative?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Julio3000 View Post
    Mifsud isn’t much of a topic anymore because he’s completely disappeared. The only clue to his whereabouts was given by an associate of his, a Swiss lawyer nicely wired into Russia, who says he’s totally fine and living under an assumed name, and also that he’s a Western intelligence asset...which sounds totally unimpeachable, considering the source. I guess that’s the peg that your frame job hypothesis hangs on?

    But, evasions aside, what do you think of the news that Manafort was apparently misleading investigators about meeting with Kilimnik and passing internal polling info to him? How does that fit into the frame-up narrative?
    I think it fits nicely with the fact that manafort has been a slimeball since day 1 and that he has suspicious ties to russians/ukrainians. Thats been clear aince day 1. This if course doesnt and never meant collusion.
    Warm feelings guy!

  15. #6834
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    Quote Originally Posted by thethe View Post
    Like polling data that is published to the general public by tens of polling agencies?
    I haven't been intimately involved in a political campaign in 30 years, but I can attest to the fact that the polling performed by political campaigns is much more comprehensive than what is available to the public and it is guarded closely.

  16. #6835
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    Whoever is the Democratic nominee really needs to hammer home these convictions of Trump people in the debates. They need to frame it as Trump isnt running for reelection he is running to stay out of prison for 4 more years.
    "State power feeds on crisis and enemies"

    John T. Flynn 1944

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    Quote Originally Posted by 50PoundHead View Post
    I haven't been intimately involved in a political campaign in 30 years, but I can attest to the fact that the polling performed by political campaigns is much more comprehensive than what is available to the public and it is guarded closely.
    I definitely think that was true in your time but the internet has leveled the playing field IMO. I could be wrong but overbearing/overfunded operations aren't necessarily a requirement to get reliable data these days.
    Warm feelings guy!

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    Expects Yuge Games nsacpi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thethe View Post
    I definitely think that was true in your time but the internet has leveled the playing field IMO. I could be wrong but overbearing/overfunded operations aren't necessarily a requirement to get reliable data these days.
    u are seriously misunderestimating how sophisticated the databases and analytics side of political campaigns have become...this is a revolution that permeates just about everything

  19. #6838
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    Quote Originally Posted by thethe View Post
    I definitely think that was true in your time but the internet has leveled the playing field IMO. I could be wrong but overbearing/overfunded operations aren't necessarily a requirement to get reliable data these days.
    The polling done by campaigns is performed on a strict contract between the pollster and the campaign. There may be leaks, but the level of sophistication performed for campaigns goes far beyond that which is published by the various news organizations. Most news organizations poll between 600 and 1,000 respondents to get a "horse race" poll. Some outfits go deeper into segments of the population, but the sample size usually remains about the same. The sophistication of internal polling is most often used to refine message and reach certain segments of the population. It's not "Do you prefer Candidate A or Candidate B?" If indeed Manafort did share data with the Russians, it was likely used to hone some of the misleading articles and posts to push certain segments of the population toward Trump. If it were done domestically, there's nothing really wrong with that provided what is being transmitted has some measure of truth in it. The problem here is whether there was direct involvement by the Russian government and that the material being distributed could be argued as being legitimate.

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    what propaganda ?

    many years ago it was found that Coca-Cola was putting fraction (of a fraction) of a second blips during television shows. Not commercials per se but commercials not seen by the naked eye. When the broadcasts were slowed down significantly a cool refreshing of Coke was appeared out of no where
    Yoyr mind would register what your eye-mind was not fast enough to recognize
    Subliminal advertising ---

    Of course it is far far more sophisticated than the 1960's but lurking all the same.
    And the principle remains
    "Sergei with the screwdriver in the server room"

  22. #6840
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    Quote Originally Posted by 50PoundHead View Post
    The polling done by campaigns is performed on a strict contract between the pollster and the campaign. There may be leaks, but the level of sophistication performed for campaigns goes far beyond that which is published by the various news organizations. Most news organizations poll between 600 and 1,000 respondents to get a "horse race" poll. Some outfits go deeper into segments of the population, but the sample size usually remains about the same. The sophistication of internal polling is most often used to refine message and reach certain segments of the population. It's not "Do you prefer Candidate A or Candidate B?" If indeed Manafort did share data with the Russians, it was likely used to hone some of the misleading articles and posts to push certain segments of the population toward Trump. If it were done domestically, there's nothing really wrong with that provided what is being transmitted has some measure of truth in it. The problem here is whether there was direct involvement by the Russian government and that the material being distributed could be argued as being legitimate.
    But when you review the methodology on the polling for these other outfits the questions are much more sophisticated then what you are saying as well. Potentially the sample size is the main variant as you noted. But sampling theory states that at a certain point sample size is irrelevant.

    I do agree the sharing with a foreign party is a big problem and that needs to be addressed. I am arguing the impact this sharing would have had on a targetted disinformation campaign. And, I still have the same position that many entities influenced the election that should not be considered 'domestic' operations such as media outlets. They all have the same end goals and that is to get their preferred result come true.
    Warm feelings guy!

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