If we can get him for Charles Thomas and Dan Meyer..... I'm in!
Mostly agree with nsacip though; I'd really rather let guys like Sims/Newk/Wisler get an audition the rest of the year. Now isn't the time to buy.
50PoundHead (07-25-2017), cajunrevenge (07-25-2017)
Gray isn't a unicorn. Other pitchers will become or be available at the right price.
Ivermectin Man
They claimed that the rebuild was focused on young pitching because it is too expensive to buy or trade for stud pitchers. So far, counting Newk, we have graduated exactly ONE of those young pitchers. We should see anywhere from 1-4 more of the young guys ready to graduate next year, so I'm really not sure why we would be acquiring ANY pitchers now or this offseason.
If the Braves aren't willing to let the young pitchers have some growing pains, then they really shouldn't have focused the rebuild on young pitchers. Trading them now for the most expensive kind of pitching (young and controlled) would be fence straddling nonsense.
Tapate50 (07-25-2017)
"I am a victim, I will tell you. I am a victim."
"I am your retribution."
This is the constant theme around these parts, but I'm not sure I understand why. The brass played as hard as anyone on Archer and Quintana - despite their better contract situations - and they exercised restraint when the asking price got too high. Both of those guys also have better medical histories than Gray as well.
I think we're as "in" on Gray as anyone out there - if he can be had for what we consider a reasonable overpay, we'll pull the trigger - however, that reasonable overpay isn't likely to include any of the Albies, Acuna, Wright, Maitan, Allard, or Soroka group. If Coppy and Company can find a reasonable mix from the other guys that they're willing to live with, I can probably live with it too. They're probably intent on extending or re-signing Gray if they go offer up several prospects for him at this point, so if we could add him to the mix for as long as we have control of Folty I'd be willing to take the gamble that Julio gets it together enough to be at least a solid #3 with the kids fighting it out for the last two spots in the rotation for the next 5 years or so.
Last edited by clvclv; 07-25-2017 at 11:39 AM.
Has there EVER been a statement and question a certain someone should absolutely never have made and asked publicly more than...
Kinda pathetic to see yourself as a message board knight in shining armor. How impotent does someone have to be in real life to resort to playing hero on a message board?
Why don't we just wait to the offseason and make a smaller trade for a good pitcher like Garcia? By the trade deadline next year, you would have Wright and Soroka (at least ) knocking on the door.
I want to outline all of our pitching prospects and the approximate time they will be big league ready.
Why would we overpay by any amount for anyone that doesn't have 5+ years of control at this point?
It is dumb for us to be buying at the deadline, so I certainly hope we don't do it. But I have no reason to believe we will.
To me , you trade the rule 5 guys you can't protect in the offseason. That's the about the only ones you move at this point.
Rumor is the As want a CF.
What if the price for Sonny Gray is Pache + Mueller. You don't think that is worth looking at? Yes Pache could be a big time player.
I'm not saying I do it, I'm saying you should be in the conversation and see if you can get a deal.
Honestly I'd rather do a 3 way trade and send Sonny to the Astros and get into the Astros OF and 3B cache.
Sure, but that's not an overpay. I was responding to the posters saying they're ok with a reasonable overpay for Gray. My point is, why? We're not going for anything right now, so what are you overpaying for?
If you get a steal on value, you take it, which your outlined deal would absolutely be. If it's even value, I would lean toward sticking with the future. If it's an overpay, you pass.
DirkPiggler (07-25-2017)
Since that's me - here's why I called it that. Tons of people around here put a huge amount of weight on these ranking lists - so much so that they somehow believe that being on them is an absolute promise of future success at the MLB level. Yet we have guys like Folty and Swanson who've had long stretches where they've struggled after being promoted. Newcomb's facing that as well at this point. In no way do I think that means that at least one or even all three of them will ultimately reach their ceiling. What it does mean (to me) is that lots of people are weighting that minor league success too heavily (much like defensive metrics seem to be weighted too heavily). People that are too high on prospects (IMO) take that "Ace" or All-Star potential ceiling and factor it in for six years when they value them and completely discount that they're more than likely going to struggle for at least a year or two as they adjust to the highest level of competition. If you discount the value you're placing on those prospects 25 to 30-ish% because the vast majority are going to have those struggles then we'll be closer to agreeing on their true value. Most of these guys simply don't hit the ground running as stars at the highest level even though they may eventually turn into one.
If an "overpay" to land Gray - who has already established himself as a star - for us involves Anderson or Gohara, Pache, and Wentz, we traded our #7 or #8, #9, and #13 prospects to land a proven front of the rotation SP - and STILL HAVE Folty, Julio, Newcomb, and three SP prospects that everyone's higher on than the ones we traded, Ender and a CF prospect that everyone's higher on than the CF we traded. So you're willing to send me 2+ years of a cheap PROVEN front-end SP (that we'd have as much chance of extending as anyone would given where he's from) for my 4th and 5th best SP prospects and my 2nd best CF prospect?
Yeah, I'll do that.
Last edited by clvclv; 07-26-2017 at 01:19 PM.
Has there EVER been a statement and question a certain someone should absolutely never have made and asked publicly more than...
Kinda pathetic to see yourself as a message board knight in shining armor. How impotent does someone have to be in real life to resort to playing hero on a message board?