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Thread: Leaked Phone Calls

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    Leaked Phone Calls

    I certainly enjoy seeing Trump embarrassed while at the same time agreeing with Frum.
    Personal communication unless authorized is that -- personal
    .................................................. .................................................. ....................

    David Frum:

    Leaking the transcript of a presidential call to a foreign leader is unprecedented, shocking, and dangerous. It is vitally important that a president be able to speak confidentially—and perhaps even more important that foreign leaders understand that they can reply in confidence.

    Thursday’s leak to The Washington Post of President Trump’s calls with the president of Mexico and the prime minister of Australia will reverberate around the world. No leader will again speak candidly on the phone to Washington, D.C.—at least for the duration of this presidency, and perhaps for longer. If these calls can be leaked, any call can be leaked—and no leader dare say anything to the president of the United States that he or she would not wish to read in the news at home.

    In March, I warned about the risk of judicial overreach:

    In response to the danger posed by Trump, other American power holders will be tempted to jettison their historic role too, and use any tool at hand—no matter how doubtfully legitimate—to stop him. Those alternative power holders may even ultimately win. But in winning, they may discover themselves in the same tragic position as that Vietnam-era army officer who supposedly said: “We had to destroy the village in order to save it.”

    The risk of national-security establishment overreach looms even larger. The temptation is obvious: Senior national-security professionals regard Trump as something between (at best) a reckless incompetent doofus and (at worst) an outright Russian espionage asset. The fear that a Russian mole has burrowed into the Oval Office may justify, to some, the most extreme actions against that suspected mole.

    The nature of this particular leak suggests just such a national-security establishment origin. It is a very elegantly designed leak. The two transcripts belong to calls whose substance was already widely reported in the media; they give away nothing new.

    Better still from a national-security establishment point of view: both calls make the foreign leader look good at home. Enrique Peña Nieto will be helped, not hurt, by his dignified defense of Mexican national interests; Malcolm Turnbull is shown being simultaneously compassionate to deserving refugees but stern in his defense of Australian law and preexisting agreements with the United States.

    Best of all, from that same national-security point of view, the transcripts reveal Trump as an arrant fool without actually compromising any important U.S. national interest. Speaking to the president of Mexico, Trump claims he won the state of New Hampshire because it is a “drug-infested den.” Trump won the state’s Republican primary, but lost New Hampshire in 2016, and that quote will not help him do better in 2020. The Turnbull transcript confirms the accuracy of early reports that Trump erupted in temper—and exposes Trump’s claims about the call as untrue. "Thank you to Prime Minister of Australia for telling the truth about our very civil conversation that FAKE NEWS media lied about. Very nice!” he tweeted on February 3. But the transcript records him saying: "As far as I am concerned that is enough Malcom. I have had it. I have been making these calls all day and this is the most unpleasant call all day. Putin was a pleasant call. This is ridiculous."

    But if no high national-security secret has been betrayed in these transcripts, the workings of the U.S. government have been gravely compromised, and in ways that will be very difficult to repair even after Trump leaves office. Trump’s violation of basic norms of government has driven people who would otherwise uphold those norms unto death to violate them in their turn. Contempt for Trump’s misconduct inspires counter-misconduct.

    Nor is that the end. The less Trump can trust the regularly constituted government, the more justified he will feel in working irregularly. His irregular actions then justify more counter-irregularity from the rest of the government.

    Donald Trump has launched the executive branch into a cycle of self-destruction for which he bears ultimate blame—but whose ultimate cost will be borne by his successors and the American nation.
    Last edited by 57Brave; 08-03-2017 at 11:34 AM.
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    "Putin told me what I wanted to hear and coddled me like the man-baby I am. Malcom (WH's spelling), you're talking to me like an adult. Firstly, I don't understand half of it because it's too complicated, ok. Secondofly, be nicer to me and the russians, ok? Puti daddy is always nice to me. I am good trump, big league trump, ok."

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    I agree that this is damaging to the U.S. and shows nothing new about the Donald. Hopefully it won't happen again. But please put someone other than the President in charge of apologizing to Mexico and Australia.
    Last edited by Runnin; 08-03-2017 at 12:28 PM.
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    Big Picture?
    I still have issues with tapped phones - have yet to hear a compelling argument in favor

    We have a legal mechanism to listen in on peoples private conversations. Be they me and AA or Trump and Malcolm.
    Very slippery slope in my opinion
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    Don't buy into the fearmongering. The more leaks the better off we are. They want these calls private to cover for their corruption not for security reasons. The vast majority of classified information are no threat to national security. I bet a report that for whatever reason mentioned how many times Trump takes a **** per day it would be redacted when publicly released for national security reasons.


    Leakers are patriots and I hope this is a trend that continues well past Trump. I don't care if it's Ron and Rand Paul's emails or phone calls getting leaked either. Let's hear what these politicians really think.
    "Donald Trump will serve a second term as president of the United States.

    It’s over."


    Little Thethe Nov 19, 2020.

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    Where do you draw the line and who draws that line ? It is ok to tap Trumps phone but if police want to randomly and search warrantless ly tap your house phone --- would that be a problem ?
    I think legal/illegal search and seizure law applies to everyone and every entity.

    John Podesta's pizza plans are protected in the Bill of Rights.
    Unless a legal search warrant.
    Same with Trump's phone calls.
    Or me calling John Doe to transact a pot buy

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    People being in government does not mean they forfeit their constitutional rights.

    Even Donald Trump.
    Danial Ellsberg went to prison don't forget
    Last edited by 57Brave; 08-03-2017 at 03:14 PM.

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    The Turnbull conversation is just ... really weird.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    The Turnbull conversation is just ... really weird.
    Holy **** I just read it and spit out my drink a few times. Read it in Trump's voice and couldn't stop laughing thinking how frustrated Turnbull was on the other side of the phone yet stayed so professional.
    Forever Fredi


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    Quote Originally Posted by Forever Fredi View Post
    Holy **** I just read it and spit out my drink a few times. Read it in Trump's voice and couldn't stop laughing thinking how frustrated Turnbull was on the other side of the phone yet stayed so professional.
    President Pena Nieto saw straight thru T's empty threats of new tariffs. I doubt any world leader didn't already know T was a helpless amateur at his job, but they know now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 57Brave View Post
    Where do you draw the line and who draws that line ? It is ok to tap Trumps phone but if police want to randomly and search warrantless ly tap your house phone --- would that be a problem ?
    I think legal/illegal search and seizure law applies to everyone and every entity.

    John Podesta's pizza plans are protected in the Bill of Rights.
    Unless a legal search warrant.
    Same with Trump's phone calls.
    Or me calling John Doe to transact a pot buy
    I draw the line when they stop doing government business. If he wants to have phone sex with Melania of course he should have privacy for that but when doing official government business we should know what's going on and being said. Anything relating to terrorism by us or against us can be communicated on other lines.
    "Donald Trump will serve a second term as president of the United States.

    It’s over."


    Little Thethe Nov 19, 2020.

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    I respect that 100% but who defines government and personal ?

    There is no way everything done in government can be public.
    So much is left to interpretation

    Using your example of Trump and Melania who listens and decides .

    There are legal mechanisms to bring things to light.
    And should illegal means be used (Pentagon Papers -Wikileaks ) I would hope the whistleblower has the courage of his/her convictions.

    Since Pentagon Papers there are in the law books whistle blower protections

    I respect Chelsea Manning -- I couldn't care less about Eric Snowdon
    The best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to make sure he doesn’t get a gun.

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    "ughh plzzz don't keep telling people you're not paying for the wall...i know you're not and it was a stupid promise i've been making for years but the mean media is going to report on it and i just can't take it!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by 57Brave View Post
    I respect that 100% but who defines government and personal ?

    There is no way everything done in government can be public.
    So much is left to interpretation

    Using your example of Trump and Melania who listens and decides .

    There are legal mechanisms to bring things to light.
    And should illegal means be used (Pentagon Papers -Wikileaks ) I would hope the whistleblower has the courage of his/her convictions.

    Since Pentagon Papers there are in the law books whistle blower protections

    I respect Chelsea Manning -- I couldn't care less about Eric Snowdon

    The secret service listens. They pretty much have custody of him 24/7 so he has little privacy from them to begin with. Obviously someone is already listening because thats how we got the transcripts unless this is some kind of House of Cards season 5 type bull****. Everything a president says while working should be recorded and eventually released. It doesnt have to be the next day. It could be released after he leaves office. I feel like we have all just accepted that our politicians are corrupt as an unavoidable consequence of democracy. I wholeheartedly believe the Republican party would let the country burn to the ground if they could be President of the ashes and their support of Trump just proves that even more to me.
    "Donald Trump will serve a second term as president of the United States.

    It’s over."


    Little Thethe Nov 19, 2020.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Super View Post
    "ughh plzzz don't keep telling people you're not paying for the wall...i know you're not and it was a stupid promise i've been making for years but the mean media is going to report on it and i just can't take it!"

    After Trump is impeached he will just claim he would have got it done if not for those meddling kids removing him from office.
    "Donald Trump will serve a second term as president of the United States.

    It’s over."


    Little Thethe Nov 19, 2020.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cajunrevenge View Post
    The secret service listens. They pretty much have custody of him 24/7 so he has little privacy from them to begin with. Obviously someone is already listening because thats how we got the transcripts unless this is some kind of House of Cards season 5 type bull****. Everything a president says while working should be recorded and eventually released. It doesnt have to be the next day. It could be released after he leaves office. I feel like we have all just accepted that our politicians are corrupt as an unavoidable consequence of democracy. I wholeheartedly believe the Republican party would let the country burn to the ground if they could be President of the ashes and their support of Trump just proves that even more to me.
    Pretty much everything has been released since the Johnson Administration.
    Ever heard the conversation where LBJ makes a move on Jackie O a week after the assassination ?
    that was 1963

    As far as House of Cards
    Does life imitate art or does art imitate life ?

    Who oversees the Secret Service to insure the civil rights of the President and his family are respected/protected ?
    There were issues with the Bush43 daughters while they were in college - that were embarassing to them and funny to me. Yet, I thought a line was crossed.

    Or Secret Service reporting HRC threw an ashtray === that has nothing to do with anything. She was the Presidents wife
    Last edited by 57Brave; 08-04-2017 at 08:55 AM.
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    Its an elected office a person voluntarily runs for. If its a part of the job they are not forced to run.



    As for House of Cards the Underwoods are clearly based off the Clintons.
    "Donald Trump will serve a second term as president of the United States.

    It’s over."


    Little Thethe Nov 19, 2020.

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    Deep state conspiracy theories something something....
    Natural Immunity Croc

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    Quote Originally Posted by cajunrevenge View Post
    After Trump is impeached he will just claim he would have got it done if not for those meddling kids removing him from office.
    How can anyone stand to hear his voice? I haven't listened to a word from him in months except what I can't avoid on TV in public places.

    His sentence should be having his tongue removed and spending the rest of his life raking bunkers on the golf course at Eglin Air Force Base.
    Last edited by Runnin; 08-05-2017 at 08:20 AM.
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    These show that our president is actually pretty stupid

    Not to mention pathetic
    "For there is always light, if only we are brave enough to see it. If only we are brave enough to be it." Amanda Gorman

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