8/21 GDT: Seattle Mariners (63-62) @ Atlanta Braves (55-67)

[thethe]

Sure thing...

Here's a typical pencil-him-in-the-rotation quote from you right after Wisler was acquired: "Yup, especially because the rotation will end up being Teheran/Wood/Miller/Folty/Wisler by July 1st."

Here's one of your typical list-them-out-to-make-them-seem-more-impressive posts: "Braves could go into next season with a legitimate 8 starting pitchers:

Teheran
Wood
Miller
Folty
Perez
Wisler
Banuelos
Jenkins"

And another pencil-him-in-the-rotation post, this time as a #3: "Miller/Teheran/Wisler/Perez/Banuelos I think Wood will be used to get another bat. I don't think the front office wants to spend on pitching."

One time, giles said "We have no one ranked as highly as Freeman or Heyward. We don't have anyone with the talent of Teheran. You are insane."

To which you replied: "Albies and Peraza are both top 50 and Albies could potentially be a top 10 prospect. Maybe guys like Wisler/Banuelos/Folty lose their eligiblity but they are all top 50-100 type prospects."

Those are just the first few on the first page of the search results for Wisler. You clearly thought of Wisler as a legit MOR or better SP. Now that he has flopped, you are trying to claim he was nothing special. Now you are trying to claim all the new prospects are better than Wisler, despite the fact that Wisler was ranked as high as #34 by BA.

Need I go on to the other guys? Or would you like to read more Wisler quotes?

ETA: I totally forgot about how much you pimped Williams Perez despite all the intelli-Braves telling you he was garbage haha!

None of that sounds like I considered these guys elite pitching prospects like we have now. Keep trying.

[Enscheff]

None of that sounds like I considered these guys elite pitching prospects like we have now. Keep trying.

LOL ok bud.

[thethe]

LOL ok bud.

Keep trying. None of it counters what I said. When in that whole 'gotcha' post did you see something where I said those guys were elite prospects? That is what you are trying to catch me in and you did none of that.

[Enscheff]

Keep trying. None of it counters what I said. When in that whole 'gotcha' post did you see something where I said those guys were elite prospects? That is what you are trying to catch me in and you did none of that.

All the guys you consider elite now are ranked lower than Wisler was except for Wright.

You were clearly of the opinion that Wisler was going to be a legit SP, and now that he has flopped, he was "nothing special".

It's fine, I wouldn't own up to being a revisionist pozzy-Barve either haha.

[Enscheff]

Those were just the first quotes I saw. I can only imagine the sunshine and rainbows you were spewing when Wisler had a bit of success July of 2015. Want me to go find how much you loved Wisler back then?

[thethe]

Those were just the first quotes I saw. I can only imagine the sunshine and rainbows you were spewing when Wisler had a bit of success July of 2015. Want me to go find how much you loved Wisler back then?

Please do - and if all you can find is me making some comments about just Wisler then your original point was wrong. None of those guys (aside from Newk) had the updside of Wright/Allard/Gohara/Touki/Soroka/Wentz. None of them.

[Enscheff]

Please do - and if all you can find is me making some comments about just Wisler then your original point was wrong. None of those guys (aside from Newk) had the updside of Wright/Allard/Gohara/Touki/Soroka/Wentz. None of them.

Haha, I can't wait to see what you say about that group of guys in 2-3 years.

[Enscheff]

msstake7: "For all you concerned with Jenkins' bb and strike out rates, he's thrown 4 ip with 0 bb and 4 k's in his first AAA start."
thethe: "I just find it hard to believe that anyone who watched him in ST could not think his stuff will play in the big leagues. Frankly, I'm shocked that he doesn't have higher K rates in the minors because his stuff is top notch.

thethe: "Top 3 will be Miller/Teheran/Wisler", I supose that's not calling Wisler a #3?

I suppose you think all the new pitching prospects will be better than the #3 SP you thought Wisler was?

OK, I'm bored of this now. I could keep going and going and going, but apparently you'll cling to the fact you never claimed these guys were elite.

[thethe]

msstake7: "For all you concerned with Jenkins' bb and strike out rates, he's thrown 4 ip with 0 bb and 4 k's in his first AAA start."
thethe: "I just find it hard to believe that anyone who watched him in ST could not think his stuff will play in the big leagues. Frankly, I'm shocked that he doesn't have higher K rates in the minors because his stuff is top notch.

thethe: "Top 3 will be Miller/Teheran/Wisler", I supose that's not calling Wisler a #3?

I suppose you think all the new pitching prospects will be better than the #3 SP you thought Wisler was?

OK, I'm bored of this now. I could keep going and going and going, but apparently you'll cling to the fact you never claimed these guys were elite.

Of course I'm going to cling to the fact I never said that. Thats because I never did. But continue your odd fascination with comments made by others. Whatever feeds your superiority complex.

[smootness]

Wright, Allard, Gohara, and Touki clearly have a higher ceiling than Wisler or Blair, I don't think that's really a debate. As for Soroka and Wentz, it's tough to say exactly. We'll have to see how Wentz progresses, and Soroka's minor-league performance so far is definitely more impressive than theirs.

I don't really see that as being an extreme statement.

[Enscheff]

Wisler was a very good prospect. He has the makings of a legit 3+ WAR guy. He didn't work out.

Wright/Allard/Soroka/Gohara/Wentz are also very good prospects. All have the making of 3+ WAR guys. Most of them won't work out.

Claiming the new group is somehow superior to what Wisler was supposed to be just to keep your pozzy-Barve commentary going is really silly. It makes you look like a fool.

[thewupk]

None of that sounds like I considered these guys elite pitching prospects like we have now. Keep trying.

Those guys aren't elite. But wentz cracking the top 100 is one of the best pitching prospects in baseball.

[sturg33]

To act like Wisler and Blair and Folty and Fried weren't considered to be good prospects is just ludicrous.

Hell, thethe said earlier this year that Fried is our best pitching prospect

[Enscheff]

Wright, Allard, Gohara, and Touki clearly have a higher ceiling than Wisler or Blair, I don't think that's really a debate. As for Soroka and Wentz, it's tough to say exactly. We'll have to see how Wentz progresses, and Soroka's minor-league performance so far is definitely more impressive than theirs.

I don't really see that as being an extreme statement.

The issue is with thethe changing his tune on Wisler. Now that Wisler has flopped, he "was nothing special". Now that Jenkins has flopped, he "was nothing special", despite thethe saying "his stuff is top notch".

Thethe needs Wisler and the other failures to be "nothing special" so he can continue to claim the guys he now deems special are still special.

It's just like someone who loses something saying "well, I didn't really want it anyways". It's asinine, so I'm calling him out.

[thethe]

Those guys aren't elite. But wentz cracking the top 100 is one of the best pitching prospects in baseball.

At 19 with his size and pedigree. Absolutely.

This is where its silly to consider all #75 prospects the same.

[Enscheff]

To act like Wisler and Blair and Folty and Fried weren't considered to be good prospects is just ludicrous.

Hell, thethe said earlier this year that Fried is our best pitching prospect

He sure did.

Now? He was nothing special compared to Wright/Allard/Soroka/Gohara/Wentz/Touki.

[thethe]

To act like Wisler and Blair and Folty and Fried weren't considered to be good prospects is just ludicrous.

Hell, thethe said earlier this year that Fried is our best pitching prospect

Folty/Fried were absolutely top prospects. Not sure why they are being debated on right now. Fried hasn't even had a chance while Folty has shown many signs of being elite and sucking.

[thewupk]

At 19 with his size and pedigree. Absolutely.

This is where its silly to consider all #75 prospects the same.

Obviously the ceilings of players can be different just as the floors are as well.

[Enscheff]

intelli-Braves: all the Braves recently promoted pitching prospects have flopped, that's not a good sign for a team built around pitching prospects.

pozzy-Braves: those other prospects weren't as good as the ones currently in the minors, the Braves will be fine.

intelli-Braves: but...you said the failed prospects were good back when they were prospects

pozzy-Braves: they were good, but they weren't AS good as the current elite set

intelli-Braves: but...those prospects were ranked as high or higher than the current set, and you claimed they were great in several posts

pozzy-Braves: No i didn't

intelli-Braves: here are the quotes...

pozzy-Braves: those quotes don't say what they appear to say

intelli-Braves: ...

[TheBravos]

I was never too big on Blair or Jenkins. They were just throw in type guys that would have been a bonus if they clicked to me. I was pretty surprised that Wisler didn't stick. He looked good early and then just lost it. Pretty surprised he has been as bad as he is (basically a AAAA guy).

I will say this....out of that first trade batch, Folty and Fried were the only pitchers that were first rounders, having the pedigree of the group of pitchers we have now. Does that mean they all succeed...of course not. I "do" think that gives them a better chance. I think possibly 50% could make it. Now they might end up being #3-#5 types, but I feel these guys have a way higher floor than the first batch. The question will be if there are one of two elites in the bunch...only time will tell.