Dissension in the front office?

[Southcack77]

I think we'll need to wait a while to gauge the impact of the Battery, but the execs said unequivocally that we'd see significant payroll increases when those revenue streams are in place. I said at the time that I'd believe it when the checks were cut. I'm still fairly skeptical.

Braves opened the season at 126m payroll according to the AJC at the time.

I'm not sure how much of this info will be in the Liberty reporting -- with a shadow stock maybe a lot of it will be. But the only real judge will be to see where payroll tends to land going forward.

It's never been clear to me how much of the ancillary income was going to remain in house. Just like I'm not sure were the 50 million dollar windfall every MLB team is getting will be deposited.

[Southcack77]

Nothing that happened in 2017 says a whole lot about whether the rebuild will succeed or whether the "Braves Way" whatever that is beyond some self congratulatory marketing speech is valid way to approach building a baseball team.

The success or failure of those things will be determine by whether the organization is a credible contender in 2019 and beyond that is consistently producing prospects from within. That's what the whole thing is all about.

Not spending free agent dollars on retreads in 2017 to try and field a decent team for the fans.

When the Braves get serious and actually sign a decent free agent to a multi-year deal or trade quality prospects for quality MLB players then we will start to be in a much better position to judge where things are.

[sturg33]

or trade quality prospects for quality MLB players then we will start to be in a much better position to judge where things are.

The last time we did this, we ended up with Hector Olivera

[Southcack77]

The last time we did this, we ended up with Hector Olivera

We traded MLB assets for a prospect in that trade.

[sturg33]

We traded MLB assets for a prospect in that trade.

That is semantics.

We traded young players for a veteran asset... presumably to accelerate this rebuild

[Southcack77]

That is semantics.

We traded young players for a veteran asset... presumably to accelerate this rebuild

It's not semantics. They traded Alex Wood, Jim Johnson, Bronson Arroyo, Luis Avilan and Jose Peraza for three players who'd never made a major league start (i.e. "prospects") and a draft pick.

Call it a bad trade, call it a horrible trade, just don't call it trading prospects for major league players.

[msstate7]

It's not semantics. They traded Alex Wood, Jim Johnson, Bronson Arroyo, Luis Avilan and Jose Peraza for three players who'd never made a major league start (i.e. "prospects") and a draft pick.

Call it a bad trade, call it a horrible trade, just don't call it trading prospects for major league players.

Paco has pitched 85 inning in MLB

[Enscheff]

And here comes the chief of the pozzy brigade, sirens flashing, ready to put out the fire haha!

Fact of the matter is the Braves management made a promise that they could rebuild in 3 years and be competitive in time to open the new ball park. They mistakenly invested in pitching prospects, and failed to be competitive by 2017 because those pitchers failed to develop. Analysts from every single legit site have repeatedly made comments along the lines of, "for some reason, the Braves think they are closer to competing than they really are". This is a fact to every non-pozzy that pays attention to baseball.

Now attendance and revenue are suffering, and they are feeling the heat from guys higher up the ladder.

Folks can keep their heads firmly buried in the sand, but I have been pointing this out for months. Everything points to these guys feeling the heat and making moves out of desperation to increase attendance, revenue and profit NOW. Not in 2019...NOW. Management always tries to shift blame to those below them, and that's exactly what we are seeing from the Johns right now.

It is clear as day to anyone who isn't blindly pozzy.

[Julio3000]

Braves opened the season at 126m payroll according to the AJC at the time.

I'm not sure how much of this info will be in the Liberty reporting -- with a shadow stock maybe a lot of it will be. But the only real judge will be to see where payroll tends to land going forward.

It's never been clear to me how much of the ancillary income was going to remain in house. Just like I'm not sure were the 50 million dollar windfall every MLB team is getting will be deposited.

I'd read a different number, but that's not really the issue.

McGuirk said he expected us to be a top-10 payroll team.

[steveAKAslick]

Only a matter of time before we get Theo on board!!!!

[Southcack77]

I'd read a different number, but that's not really the issue.

McGuirk said he expected us to be a top-10 payroll team.

They were #17, according the AJC.

Just have to see where it goes from there.

[steveAKAslick]

And here comes the chief of the pozzy brigade, sirens flashing, ready to put out the fire haha!

Fact of the matter is the Braves management made a promise that they could rebuild in 3 years and be competitive in time to open the new ball park. They mistakenly invested in pitching prospects, and failed to be competitive by 2017 because those pitchers failed to develop. Analysts from every single legit site have repeatedly made comments along the lines of, "for some reason, the Braves think they are closer to competing than they really are". This is a fact to every non-pozzy that pays attention to baseball.

Now attendance and revenue are suffering, and they are feeling the heat from guys higher up the ladder.

Folks can keep their heads firmly buried in the sand, but I have been pointing this out for months. Everything points to these guys feeling the heat and making moves out of desperation to increase attendance, revenue and profit NOW. Not in 2019...NOW. Management always tries to shift blame to those below them, and that's exactly what we are seeing from the Johns right now.

It is clear as day to anyone who isn't blindly pozzy.

thethe hasn't posted yet has he?

[Chico]

And here comes the chief of the pozzy brigade, sirens flashing, ready to put out the fire haha!

Fact of the matter is the Braves management made a promise that they could rebuild in 3 years and be competitive in time to open the new ball park. They mistakenly invested in pitching prospects, and failed to be competitive by 2017 because those pitchers failed to develop. Analysts from every single legit site have repeatedly made comments along the lines of, "for some reason, the Braves think they are closer to competing than they really are". This is a fact to every non-pozzy that pays attention to baseball.

Now attendance and revenue are suffering, and they are feeling the heat from guys higher up the ladder.

Folks can keep their heads firmly buried in the sand, but I have been pointing this out for months. Everything points to these guys feeling the heat and making moves out of desperation to increase attendance, revenue and profit NOW. Not in 2019...NOW. Management always tries to shift blame to those below them, and that's exactly what we are seeing from the Johns right now.

It is clear as day to anyone who isn't blindly pozzy.

I do think they thought the new ballpark would be enough to draw fans, but that's not the case. In the beginning of the year there was a buzz. I went a handful of times as well. Now nobody cares since they're not competitive and most go to the Battery when they are away. Atlanta fans are a fickle bunch and it's a city becoming more and more full of transplants. I do think the Battery will be their saving grace for revenue though. You don't see any tailgating and everyone goes early to get their drink on.

With that being said I do believe there will be some pressure to win in 2018. Some say a new park can have a 2-3 year draw before winning matters, but I don't think that's the case in this market.

The good news is that our core of pitching prospects are starting to mature to be ready in 2018 and we have Acuna and Albies to throw in to the mix with Freeman, Ender, and Dansby. We' should have about 40-50m to spend. This could be a great offseason, but we still have to be smart about it and not sacrifice long term success for immediate draw at the gate. That's my only worry is that we start to feel the need to push all of the chips in. We'll see. It should be interesting

[Enscheff]

I'd read a different number, but that's not really the issue.

McGuirk said he expected us to be a top-10 payroll team.

Why is the Pozzy Chief acting like this isn't a number we can easily look up?

http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/atlanta-braves/payroll/

The very bottom-right figure is the Braves total 2017 payroll: $113.9M.

That value includes adjustments like Kemp only being paid $9.5M, and all the signing bonuses for the 2017 draft class.

So yeah...where's this big jump? How are we supposed to believe they will be $165M and in the Top 10 any time soon with a terrible TV contract and attendance in the 2.4M range?

Do we really need any more clarification as to why the FO is in trouble?

[Enscheff]

They were #17, according the AJC.

Just have to see where it goes from there.

Again, this is a number we can easily look up. No need to cling to "facts" that make you feel better about the situation.

[Enscheff]

thethe hasn't posted yet has he?

SouthCrack is the Pozzy Chief. He fancies himself a hero that comes to the FO's rescue when we criticize them.

thethe is just a ditsy cheerleader. Any player that posts a good moth is now suddenly amazing, and then forgotten about the next month.

[nsacpi]

the main concern I have is something is causing the front office to make short-sighted decisions regarding service clock management...im not entirely sure what is causing that to happen

[Enscheff]

the main concern I have is something is causing the front office to make short-sighted decisions regarding service clock management...im not entirely sure what is causing that to happen

They promised a competitive team by 2017 when the new park opened. The rebuild would not have been green lighted otherwise. The drive to be competitive forced all the oddly timed promotions, and all the inefficient "win soon" moves.

It's all tied to attendance and revenue because that's all Liberty cares about. If the Braves don't draw 3M+ next year, I expect the FO to be largely cleared out. The FO is making changes to show higher level execs they are taking action to address the issues. First they fired Fredi, now they are shuffling the lower level execs. It's typical blame shifting seen in every single organization in the world.

I've been saying it for months, and now we are starting to see the first consequences of this doomed process.

[bravesfanMatt]

They promised a competitive team by 2017 when the new park opened. The rebuild would not have been green lighted otherwise. The drive to be competitive forced all the oddly timed promotions, and all the inefficient "win soon" moves.

It's all tied to attendance and revenue because that's all Liberty cares about. If the Braves don't draw 3M+ next year, I expect the FO to be largely cleared out. The FO is making changes to show higher level execs they are taking action to address the issues. First they fired Fredi, now they are shuffling the lower level execs. It's typical blame shifting seen in every single organization in the world.

I've been saying it for months, and now we are starting to see the first consequences of this doomed process.

if clearing out the entire FO means getting rid of Cox and JS.. then sign me up to the negi brave's roster..

[Southcack77]

And here comes the chief of the pozzy brigade, sirens flashing, ready to put out the fire haha!

Fact of the matter is the Braves management made a promise that they could rebuild in 3 years and be competitive in time to open the new ball park. They mistakenly invested in pitching prospects, and failed to be competitive by 2017 because those pitchers failed to develop. Analysts from every single legit site have repeatedly made comments along the lines of, "for some reason, the Braves think they are closer to competing than they really are". This is a fact to every non-pozzy that pays attention to baseball.

Now attendance and revenue are suffering, and they are feeling the heat from guys higher up the ladder.

Folks can keep their heads firmly buried in the sand, but I have been pointing this out for months. Everything points to these guys feeling the heat and making moves out of desperation to increase attendance, revenue and profit NOW. Not in 2019...NOW. Management always tries to shift blame to those below them, and that's exactly what we are seeing from the Johns right now.

It is clear as day to anyone who isn't blindly pozzy.

I don't know what to tell you. I never expected them to contend in 2017 and never saw their window as being especially likely to open until the end of the decade.

If you are claiming now that you did see that in 2017, I think you were unrealistic.

I don't actually believe that you think they especially tried. I'm confident I could find numerous posts by you making fun of the pozzi-Braves for thinking that front office was trying to win rather than just throw some recognizable players out there to sell tickets. Does that sound a little familiar to you?

......

As far as the Braves finances, I have no idea. I don't have near the information necessary to make that sort of conclusion. Maybe Liberty's next quarterly's or year end statements will shed some light on it, I don't know.

I think your conclusion that the Sean Rodriguez trade proves that the Braves are in a financial disaster is suspect.

Here is what I think about Sean Rodriguez. he was acquired to potentially split starts between 2B and 3B and come off the bench. the Braves somewhat surprisingly agreed to give him 5.75 million in 2017 and 2018 to man that roll. That's a pretty bad deal for a bench bat, but it isn't such a bad deal for someone that might start.

Something funny happened on his way to the ballpark. He was seriously injured and missed more than half the season. The Braves watched his rehab as he floundered in AAA and then in the majors and then gave him and his obligation away for nothing.

Now you can assume that was because they couldn't meet payroll, just like you can assume they sold a 31 year old throwing 86 in AAA for cash because they couldn't meet payroll, if you want.

But maybe, just maybe, it had more to do with the fact that they acquired Brandon Phillips and Matt Adams, that they found a defensive utility guy in Camargo, were shortly to promote Albies, and didn't see SRod as a starting 3B for them, and didn't want to pay SROD 5.75 million to come off the bench next season as their #2 bench bat behind Matt Adams (granted he might be traded as well).

I mean maybe a 25% increase in attendance really did turn out to be a terrible blow against the team's finances or maybe trading a soon to be 33 year old career reserve hitting under .200 in nearly 100 ABs was a baseball move?

I don't know. You may have had another Mozart moment. I'm sure we will find out more soon.

I look forward to it.