Global Events & Politics Überthread

[The Chosen One]

Their economy should be fine then and the SWIFT sanctions shouldn’t hurt them.

If this Ukraine thing doesn’t work out for Vladimir, he should try to invade China. Might have more success.

[Jaw]

Putin is an awful tyrant that we should welcome losing power.

That doesn't change the fact that the EU/Western Elites are provoking Russia by sending massive armaments to the Ukraine for the past decade. They knew this would happen eventually and many people said this in real time not just after the fact.

Ukraine is an absolute ****hole that was created by the West and they use it as their money pot. Go look where the Clintons get their donations from. Look at the European elites get their money from. This is way beyond the first level "Putin is a bad guy" argument.

Sending military aid was a necessity after the US, UK, and Russia convinced Ukraine to surrender all of their nukes. They didn't have the ability to maintain all of them but they could have kept a few and Vlad wouldn't be invading them right now. We talked them out of keeping those few. Completely abandoning them would have made any similar deals unobtainable in the future.

[thethe]

Sending military aid was a necessity after the US, UK, and Russia convinced Ukraine to surrender all of their nukes. They didn't have the ability to maintain all of them but they could have kept a few and Vlad wouldn't be invading them right now. We talked them out of keeping those few. Completely abandoning them would have made any similar deals unobtainable in the future.

Sending weapons to defend their sovereignty against who? The EU? Of course we sent them as an adversarial tact towards Russia. Arming the Ukrainians while also meddling endlessly politically/economically (Hello criminal activity from Big D's like HRC) in the nation sends a clear signal to Putin that there is a clock as to when they become an EU/NATO country.

[nsacpi]

U.S. military aid to Ukraine

2010 $20 million

2020 $284 million

anyone know what happened between 2010 and 2020?

[thethe]

U.S. military aid to Ukraine

2010 $20 billion

2020 $284 billion

anyone know what happened between 2010 and 2020?

The Putin puppet hurt Putin.

Shame the "anti-Putin" people gave him a bunch of leverage when Trump was kicked out of DC illegally.

[The Chosen One]

Sending military aid was a necessity after the US, UK, and Russia convinced Ukraine to surrender all of their nukes. They didn't have the ability to maintain all of them but they could have kept a few and Vlad wouldn't be invading them right now. We talked them out of keeping those few. Completely abandoning them would have made any similar deals unobtainable in the future.

We signed a pact with Ukraine and Russia. Ukraine gives up their big weapons, and they wouldn't be attacked by US or Russia.

We didn't break that.

[thethe]

We signed a pact with Ukraine and Russia. Ukraine gives up their big weapons, and they wouldn't be attacked by US or Russia.

We didn't break that.

Ooof - trained so well by the programming.

[Jaw]

Sending weapons to defend their sovereignty against who? The EU? Of course we sent them as an adversarial tact towards Russia. Arming the Ukrainians while also meddling endlessly politically/economically (Hello criminal activity from Big D's like HRC) in the nation sends a clear signal to Putin that there is a clock as to when they become an EU/NATO country.

Well yeah, sending weapons to defend their sovereignty against the much larger, aggressive, nuclear power. An aggressive nuclear power who did end up invading them, annexing their most strategically important region, supplying "rebels" for most of a decade, and then launching a full scale invasion targeted at their government. There's a reason they weren't concerned about Romania or Poland invading but were concerned about Russia.

[striker42]

The sanctions are doing nothing but hurting the Russian people. THe oligarchs are still doing fine if we are buying oil.

I agree with your premise but it speaks to how we got here and why Russia is as emboldened as they are...

Russian oil is a long term problem and one that I think Europe and the US will work on but it's going to take years just to build the infrastructure.

I also think it's telling that Putin hasn't cut off the taps yet. He might be just as dependent on it to stay in power as the west is on it to heat homes.

[The Chosen One]

Well yeah, sending weapons to defend their sovereignty against the much larger, aggressive, nuclear power. An aggressive nuclear power who did end up invading them, annexing their most strategically important region, supplying "rebels" for most of a decade, and then launching a full scale invasion targeted at their government. There's a reason they weren't concerned about Romania or Poland invading but were concerned about Russia.

Keep drinking that kool-aid Jaw.

[thethe]

Well yeah, sending weapons to defend their sovereignty against the much larger, aggressive, nuclear power. An aggressive nuclear power who did end up invading them, annexing their most strategically important region, supplying "rebels" for most of a decade, and then launching a full scale invasion targeted at their government. There's a reason they weren't concerned about Romania or Poland invading but were concerned about Russia.

Its still an act of passive aggressiveness towards Russia.

What does an alternate world look like where the West doesn't provoke Putin at the same time giving him $100 a barrel oil while choking off the Wests ability to generate energy?

Maybe Putin still invades because he is a tyrant. Maybe he doesn't. But when you threaten a proud people like this over the course of many years then this was a likely outcome.

[thethe]

Everyone is anti-war/anti-interventionalist 10-20 years after a war. Shame it takes that long.

[Jaw]

Germany chose Russian fossil fuels over domestic nuclear power, supposedly for environmental reasons, so some German bureaucrats obviously received large amounts of Russian cash. Germany was building port infrastructure to receive large amounts of gas from the US. They stopped that after Biden was elected over the supposed Putin puppet.

[thethe]

Germany chose Russian fossil fuels over domestic nuclear power, supposedly for environmental reasons, so some German bureaucrats obviously received large amounts of Russian cash. Germany was building port infrastructure to receive large amounts of gas from the US. They stopped that after Biden was elected over the supposed Putin puppet.

There is no war if we didn't crush our own energy production.

Case closed.

We are where we are because of the Party of Davos and their US subsidiary the Democrat party.

[thethe]

First casualty of war is the truth.

You aren't even allowed to present a counter point to the Pravda right now.

Just remember where you all stood today when the dust settles in 5-10 years.

[striker42]

Russa and Ukraine have agreed to continue talks after their meeting today. I think that can't be characterized as anything but good news. I expected them to be brief with the Russians demanding complete surrender and the Ukranians demanding Russia leave at once. The fact that it went well enough that it didn't immediately break down with the parties storming out is good news.

[Jaw]

Its still an act of passive aggressiveness towards Russia.

What does an alternate world look like where the West doesn't provoke Putin at the same time giving him $100 a barrel oil while choking off the Wests ability to generate energy?

Maybe Putin still invades because he is a tyrant. Maybe he doesn't. But when you threaten a proud people like this over the course of many years then this was a likely outcome.

Come on man. Providing a former Soviet state with the means to offer some defense capability while still posing zero offensive threat to Russia is the definition of anti-war. We didn't supply tanks, bombers, fighters, or cruise missiles. It was patrol boats and anti-tank weapons and stinger missiles, all purely defensive weapons.

[The Chosen One]

Some Russians are just now finding out about financial sanctions, because they can't use Apple or Google Pay in their subways.

What a convenience we take for granted. When nscapi and I were going around Manhattan, the ease of just paying for our metro fares with my Apple Pay... man.

[thethe]

Come on man. Providing a former Soviet state with the means to offer some defense capability while still posing zero offensive threat to Russia is the definition of anti-war. We didn't supply tanks, bombers, fighters, or cruise missiles. It was patrol boats and anti-tank weapons and stinger missiles, all purely defensive weapons.

Think about it from their perspective - How proud of a people the Russians are...especially the old KGB guys in charge.

Maybe from a sane perspective its not but that is not the chess pieces on the board currently.

[The Chosen One]

Gotta hand it to Big Vlad. He is singlehandedly uniting most of the world right now.

I'm sure Finland wanting to join NATO now will be propagated as US' fault again.