Bullpen???

[clvclv]

So Coppy wants as many as two new pieces for the pen this winter? Wow. He more or less intimated that the rotation will be "fixed" from within or via trade as well in Bradley's blog meaning the money coming off the books is likely to be spent on a 3B and pen pieces since any trade for a SP will likely be for an inexpensive one. Could they be considering trying to build a legitimate lockdown pen that's deep enough to roll with all the young arms moving forward even if they're likely to be "5 and fly" guys fairly often?

Harry has mentioned liking the thought of trying to corner the market on RPs, and you have to admit the thought's pretty intriguing. The only teams lilkely to be bidding on Closers are probably the Rockies, Cubs, and maybe Cardinals and Rangers. You've got Holland, Wade Davis, Fernando Rodney, Addison Reed, Brandon Kintzler, and Tony Watson available as potential back-end pieces with late-inning experience. It's obviously an "out there" thought, but if they're "happy" with the in-house rotation options, how much better might this team if everybody currently in the pen got to move up two innings??? As in...

Julio, Gohara, Folty, Newcomb, with Fried and Sims battling it out to be the #5 until Allard, Wright, and/or Soroka are given a shot (possibly after the All-Star break)

Sign Frazier for say 3 years/$45 million so Camargo can be used as the super-utility guy he should be.

That leaves you $17 million left from the Dickey/Bartolo/Garcia cash windfall. Offer Reed 3 years/$30 million and Kintzler 2 years/$10 million and you've got...

Vizcaino, Reed, Minter, Ramirez, Kintzler, Freeman, Johnson, and one of Krol/Brothers/Lindgren/Winkler/Jackson

[msstate7]

I like the idea of going strong on bullpen

[thethe]

I like the idea of going strong on bullpen

Been my preference all along. Let the young kids pitch in the rotation. Give Camargo the keys to 3rd and when Acuna is up in May you platoon Kemp and markakis.

[Enscheff]

This is certainly a viable option for a team that has no money to spend due to badly missing projected revenue numbers. It may be the only option available to them this offseason actually.

[BeanieAntics]

This is certainly a viable option for a team that has no money to spend due to badly missing projected revenue numbers. It may be the only option available to them this offseason actually.

I just wonder how screwed we actually are. Because revenue is not gonna be getting a ton better next year if there aren't significant improvements. Acuna may bring a little excitement, but probably not enough to move the needle to an acceptable point. The front office needs something or someone that will draw a consistent crowd. Winning would accomplish that, but I don't think we are going to be competing for the playoffs next year. I have a feeling that this is going to lead them to make a trade for a big name and they will likely overpay to do it. If for nothing else than generating excitement among the casual fans. I really hate the idea of doing that, but I just have a bad feeling that this rebuild is gonna be fully derailed by financials.

[msstate7]

I just wonder how screwed we actually are. Because revenue is not gonna be getting a ton better next year if there aren't significant improvements. Acuna may bring a little excitement, but probably not enough to move the needle to an acceptable point. The front office needs something or someone that will draw a consistent crowd. Winning would accomplish that, but I don't think we are going to be competing for the playoffs next year. I have a feeling that this is going to lead them to make a trade for a big name and they will likely overpay to do it. If for nothing else than generating excitement among the casual fans. I really hate the idea of doing that, but I just have a bad feeling that this rebuild is gonna be fully derailed by financials.

The five steps to overcoming panic attacks are:

Acknowledge & accept

Wait & watch (and maybe, Work)

Actions (to make yourself more comfortable)

Repeat

End

Notice the first letter of each step... AWARE. You and escheff can beat these if just concentrate on AWARE.

/Public service notice

[steveAKAslick]

Barring injury you’d expect both Lindgren and Winkler to be in the BP along with Freeman, Viz, Minter, Ramirez

Question marks or players you’ve got to decide what to do with would be Brothers, Jackson, Wisler, Sims, Morris, Biddle, Blair, JJ and Hursh

[mfree80]

Barring injury you’d expect both Lindgren and Winkler to be in the BP along with Freeman, Viz, Minter, Ramirez

Question marks or players you’ve got to decide what to do with would be Brothers, Jackson, Wisler, Sims, Morris, Biddle, Blair, JJ and Hursh

Even with a 7 or 8 man bullpen, it takes 10-15 serviceable relievers to get through a season. I think some of these guys will be stashed in AAA if they don't make the initial roster, and called upon as needed. As always, a couple of guys who may not be on our radar now will work there way onto it during the season. Still room for a couple of solid FA signings.

[Russ2dollas]

depends on the guys and the deals.

I could see us getting some decent money guys on 1-2 year deals, maybe a team option. That could be good if we are going with young starters on pitch counts who tend to be wild. It could also mean we have some decent trade pieces if we suck again or if young guys like Sims move to the pen.

I'd be interested to see what would happen with Comargo/Ruiz at 3B bc it would be a pretty good defensive INF. Acuna in RF and Ender in CF is going to be a pretty good OF even with neck and Kemp bringing down LF. It would be interesting to see us go more in on defense and see what happens.

[BeanieAntics]

The five steps to overcoming panic attacks are:

Acknowledge & accept

Wait & watch (and maybe, Work)

Actions (to make yourself more comfortable)

Repeat

End

Notice the first letter of each step... AWARE. You and escheff can beat these if just concentrate on AWARE.

/Public service notice

Xanax works perfectly fine thank you

[Chico]

I think it could be a good course of action. If you go after 2 guys and pair them with Minter/Lindgren you have a good core to the pen. Winkler will stick since he cannot be traded. Johnson could have a role as well since he doesn't have any trade value. Then you keep one spot for a swing man. That will allow you to trade Viz, Ramirez, Freeman, and Morris for prospects, bench help, and/or relievers with options left to stash in AAA.

[msstate7]

I think it could be a good course of action. If you go after 2 guys and pair them with Minter/Lindgren you have a good core to the pen. Winkler will stick since he cannot be traded. Johnson could have a role as well since he doesn't have any trade value. Then you keep one spot for a swing man. That will allow you to trade Viz, Ramirez, Freeman, and Morris for prospects, bench help, and/or relievers with options left to stash in AAA.

Why not just keep those guys and roll with our young starters? Hopefully a really good pen can offset growing pains in the starting rotation

[50PoundHead]

My guess is Lindgren would probably start the year in the minors to build up arm strength, regain command, etc. That may already be happening on the side, but I think they'd want him to start 2018 in a lower-leverage setting. I wouldn't be surprised to see Brothers remain on the 40-man over the winter as a back-up plan.

[Managuarantano's Volunteers]

Why not just keep those guys and roll with our young starters? Hopefully a really good pen can offset growing pains in the starting rotation

Because relievers are occasionally getting trade offers worth more than their actual value.

[MadduxFanII]

Good lord. Winkler will still be under Rule 5 restrictions to start next year, won’t he?

[Enscheff]

It's probably worth noting the current BP arms with an above average xwOBA:

Minter 0.206
Winkler 0.252
Morris 0.275
Freeman 0.276
Viz 0.292
Brothers 0.300
JJ 0.303
Ramirez 0.314

That's already 8 guys who have either proven to be above average pitchers, or have shown glimpses. Cabrera is also down rehabbing, and Lindgren is also supposed to be nasty. So 10 guys looking for spots in the BP already.

It would be a mistake to spend a lot of cash on the BP this offseason, especially considering guys like Newk and Fried could be moving to the BP in the near future.

[Hudson2]

I like the 2 good bullpen additions too. Shorten up the game some with the young starters. I hope they let Dickie go and just let the kids take their lumps and learn on the job. Markakis should be traded this offseason and that should give us a little more to spend. But the team has to do something to generate some buzz going into year 2 of the stadium, not sure who they could get but somebody like Stanton or Donaldson would help a lot. Of course that means Miami would have to take a bad contract back.

[Julio3000]

This is a general statement that doesn't add much to the overall discussion, but we could have a stud pen with lots of likely contributors, which will be particularly important if we have a lot of young arms in the rotation.

[50PoundHead]

I like the 2 good bullpen additions too. Shorten up the game some with the young starters. I hope they let Dickie go and just let the kids take their lumps and learn on the job. Markakis should be traded this offseason and that should give us a little more to spend. But the team has to do something to generate some buzz going into year 2 of the stadium, not sure who they could get but somebody like Stanton or Donaldson would help a lot. Of course that means Miami would have to take a bad contract back.

We have at least one of those I can think of.

[50PoundHead]

Good lord. Winkler will still be under Rule 5 restrictions to start next year, won’t he?

Rule 5 and 3/4 for him!