Sneaky 3B Play This Winter

[clvclv]

I've never been a huge fan, but given where the Tigers are I wonder if Castellanos doesn't make sense as a target for the brass. With Candelario now on board and only two arbitration seasons left, there likely won't be a better time for them to move him. Since they'll be trying to move Iglesias and Kinsler with no solid replacements for them on the horizon, they might be willing to take Camargo back as a significant piece of a deal for him (in turn allowing us to sell high on Johan in the same deal). If this is what our scouts believe Castellanos is going forward and you can get him for a package like Camargo, Demeritte, and their choice of Touki or Muller you could immediately sit down and talk extension with his people. Start teaching Riley to play LF, and you've at least got your in-house replacements for every offensive position in place.

Even if Dickey did decide to come back, that leaves a lot of money to throw at Joe Smith, Pat Neshek, and Brandon Kintzler types to "fix" the pen on shorter-term deals and maybe Addison Reed for as many as 3 years.

[nsacpi]

Camargo has more value than Castellanos imo.

[BlackwaterPark]

Castellanos was very streaky, and error prone. He's worth a chance though

[BeanieAntics]

The hardest of passes. He is a decent bat that plays atrocious defense. He hit .273 with 26 homers and was only able to eek out a 0.7 bWAR. He has 4 full years in the majors and has a grand total of 1.3 total bWAR. For transparency's sake I will say Fangraphs is a little more optimistic on him at a 1.7 this year. I'm the low guy on Camargo and even I think he has more value than NC.

[clvclv]

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseb...b0dc71ef7.html

[BeanieAntics]

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseb...b0dc71ef7.html

You think that the Cards would be looking to move Gyorko? I'm skeptical of that, unless they decide to rebuild for some reason. I think the Cards feel like they can still compete at this point. Gyorko would be a guy I would love to have though, but I do wonder what the price tag would look like for him.

[clvclv]

You think that the Cards would be looking to move Gyorko? I'm skeptical of that, unless they decide to rebuild for some reason. I think the Cards feel like they can still compete at this point. Gyorko would be a guy I would love to have though, but I do wonder what the price tag would look like for him.

I think there are lots of people looking for the Cards to try for a pretty big makeover this winter. They're obviously in on Stanton if they can get him, and would be an obvious fit for J. D. Martinez if they can't. I've heard them mentioned as a logical suitor for Hosmer - their kind of intangibles guy, and having he and Molina in the same dugout would be a lot like the clubhouse leadership the Cubs had with Rossy and Rizzo. Adding Hosmer would lead to another position switch for Carpenter. They're loaded in the OF, and adding Martinez would add to that. They have plenty of pitching with Martinez, Weaver, Wacha, Wainright, a potential Lynn reunion, Reyes coming back from Tommy John, and Flaherty and Hudson knocking on the door.

They always have plenty of money to spend, but I'd love to see about trying to work something out where we could take Gyorko and Piscotty's money off their hands - if they landed Martinez and Hosmer, Carpenter likely goes back to 3B. They're not likely going to be able to unload Wong's money on anyone, so pinching pennies in other places makes lots of sense. Tommy Pham could move to RF to help "hide" Martinez' defense in LF.

Taking on both Piscotty AND Gyorko would cost us $10 million in 2018 - in the range we've been discussing for a 3B addition if the brass makes one - Piscotty doesn't start to make money until Markakis would be off the books. They're rumored (nothing concrete, of course) to have interest in Camargo as a serious defensive upgrade, and will be looking for back-end pen help with Rosenthal down next season. I'm not sure how much more it would take to get talks started on their end (quite sure we'd need to add some more), but if we could offer Johan, Vizcaino, and maybe Ramirez to help fill their holes inexpensively, they'd wind up with a terribly dangerous offense - Fowler, Pham, Hosmer, Martinez, Carpenter, DeJong (2B), Molina, Camargo - and add two back-end arms without having to spend much on them.

We pass on Dickey (if he doesn't retire), possibly trade Adams for Odorizzi (as mentioned elsewhere). The money? You've added $15.95 million in salaries if...

1.) Save $1 million going from Dickey to Odorizzi ($7.5 million to $6.5 million)
2.) Add $5.4 million with the additions of Piscotty and Gyorko ($9 million + $1 million less Adams' projected $4.6 million arby number)
3.) Add $11.55 million with the additions of Reed and Kintzler ($10 million + $5 million less Vizcaino's projected $3.7 million arby number and Ramirez' ~$750,000)



Julio, Gohara, Odorizzi, Newcomb, Folty

Ender, Ozzie, Freeman, Kemp, Piscotty, Gyorko, Flowers/Suzuki, Dansby

Flowers/Suzuki, Markakis, Jace (Albies slides over anytime Dansby's out), Lane Adams

Johnson, Reed, Minter, Kintzler, Freeman, Winkler, Brothers/Lindgren, Sims



You let everyone know Markakis is available for a bag of balls at any point as long as you don't have to eat money, and that you're willing to eat up to 50% of what's due Kemp if someone will take him - at the point either gets dealt Acuna gets promoted and plays one of the corners.

[Enscheff]

Think I'd pass on a guy with a career .305 OBP.

[BeanieAntics]

Think I'd pass on a guy with a career .305 OBP.

Well, you do have to put that into context though. He has improved his OBP every year since his second season and got it all the way up to a .341 this year. I think the sample size has grown large enough the past two years to expect him to be a consistent 2-3 win player every year. Perhaps a tad more if he got a full 600 at bats. I would take him over Castellanos easily

[Carp]

Nick wouldn't be a bad option if the cost is low enough. I don't see Carmargo, Touki, and Demeritte as a low cost, however. Touki is a clear top 10 prospect for us and Demeritte is borderline as well, imo. Nick simply isn't worth that sort of package with only 2 years of control.

[Carp]

But count me definitely in Jed Gyorko is they are looking to move him. Potentially a 4-5 WAR player if he can actually stay healthy all year.

[Chico]

Some writer mentioned Gyorko a few months ago and I thought it strange, but he's been atop my trade list ever since. The skill set, projected salaries, and time frame fit very well. I wanted him when San Diego was offering him up.

[Enscheff]

Well, you do have to put that into context though. He has improved his OBP every year since his second season and got it all the way up to a .341 this year. I think the sample size has grown large enough the past two years to expect him to be a consistent 2-3 win player every year. Perhaps a tad more if he got a full 600 at bats. I would take him over Castellanos easily

I would take anyone over Castellanos.

The question is would you take Gyorko and the cost to acquire him and pay him over using this chance to see what Camargo is?

I don't think he's worth it in that scenario.

[BeanieAntics]

I would take anyone over Castellanos.

The question is would you take Gyorko and the cost to acquire him and pay him over using this chance to see what Camargo is?

I don't think he's worth it in that scenario.

Yeah if the option is Camargo + prospects involved in a Gyorko trade vs. Gyorko minus those prospects I would take Camargo almost every time at this stage

[Russ2dollas]

Can't believe I'm saying this but the sneaky 3B fix is Freddie Freeman.

He was ok. Lots of ppl are talking about the devaluation of corner defense w/ everyone hitting the ball in the air or striking out. Put FF at 3B and let Kemp play 1B. Dramatic improvement in your OF defense and doesn't cost any extra money. Move Comargo or Ruiz in for defensive replacement late.

[bravesfanMatt]

Can't believe I'm saying this but the sneaky 3B fix is Freddie Freeman.

He was ok. Lots of ppl are talking about the devaluation of corner defense w/ everyone hitting the ball in the air or striking out. Put FF at 3B and let Kemp play 1B. Dramatic improvement in your OF defense and doesn't cost any extra money. Move Comargo or Ruiz in for defensive replacement late.

That is not stupid. FF was serviceable over there and anything to get Kemp out of LF would be a win in my book. Replace FF at 3rd defensively after Kemp's 3rd AB and move FF to 1st.

[Russ2dollas]

That is not stupid. FF was serviceable over there and anything to get Kemp out of LF would be a win in my book. Replace FF at 3rd defensively after Kemp's 3rd AB and move FF to 1st.

I appreciate the support.

If you played 2/3 of Adams, Neck and Kemp at LF and 1B you might have a decent bat, keep these old guys rested and have a solid bench bat. The money is already spent. You could probably move one of Adams or Neck (eating money) and save 4-5 million. I'd prefer to keep them and maybe at the deadline you get lucky to find a deal.

Kemp will probably suck at 1B. But if he has all off season to prepare he might not suck as much as LF. Maybe being a 1B/LF/DH will make him more interesting to a team.

FF with an entire off season to work at 3B might be avg. IMO he mostly looked stiff. But he was coming off an injury and playing a new spot. An off season of yoga might make him ok.

Snit would have to learn what defensive subs are, yes.

It would stunt our ability to find out if Ruiz and/or Comargo are real things or not.

Obviously if someone will take on Kemp at 5 million per year or more then I'd move him (IIRC we owed Olivera 30 million through 19. So if we owe Kemp less than 30 million and finish a year early then I can pretend victory). If someone would take on most of Neck I'd move him.

Use Kemp, Adams and Neck to keep Acuna down for the first part of the year.

Don't spend any money and allow yourselves the chance to take on money if the right deal is there (Touki deal) or you get super lucky and the division sucks enough for you to be a baby buyer at the deadline.

[Enscheff]

Can't believe I'm saying this but the sneaky 3B fix is Freddie Freeman.

He was ok. Lots of ppl are talking about the devaluation of corner defense w/ everyone hitting the ball in the air or striking out. Put FF at 3B and let Kemp play 1B. Dramatic improvement in your OF defense and doesn't cost any extra money. Move Comargo or Ruiz in for defensive replacement late.

This isn't a stupid idea at all. You are 100% right about infield defense being marginalized with defensive positioning and the increase in Ks and fly balls.

I think Freeman handled himself at 3B better than anyone could have reasonably expected. I doubt he is as good over a full season as UZR/150 suggests, but I would be willing to bet he wouldn't the the worst defensive 3B in the league.

[bravesfanMatt]

This isn't a stupid idea at all. You are 100% right about infield defense being marginalized with defensive positioning and the increase in Ks and fly balls.

I think Freeman handled himself at 3B better than anyone could have reasonably expected. I doubt he is as good over a full season as UZR/150 suggests, but I would be willing to bet he wouldn't the the worst defensive 3B in the league.

See what happens when you start talking all positive..

[clvclv]

Can't believe I'm saying this but the sneaky 3B fix is Freddie Freeman.

He was ok. Lots of ppl are talking about the devaluation of corner defense w/ everyone hitting the ball in the air or striking out. Put FF at 3B and let Kemp play 1B. Dramatic improvement in your OF defense and doesn't cost any extra money. Move Comargo or Ruiz in for defensive replacement late.

Would make us really bad defensively for a little bit, but would provide a ton of offense while holding Acuna down early with him at 3B, Kemp at 1B, and Adams (assuming he's not dealt) in LF. Could even play Camargo at 3B and move Freddie back to 1B to keep from playing Kemp more than 4-5 times a week.

Just gotta think we've seen all the Freddie at 3B we're going to see though IMO.