The acquisition of knowledge in any form is an admirable approach to life but it should not be at the expense of others.Originally Posted by Jaw
I spent very little on my accounting education at a city college. Destroyed the cpa exams and got a job with pwc for a few years to build my resume. Paid every dime of it out of my pocket while working full time. Even if I accumulated debt in would easily be able to pay it off based on where I am currently.
Natural Immunity Croc
Yup...this 'revolution' is being led largely by the elitist academic institution.
As far as I can tell, it had no impact on my two older kids. They got their educations and shrugged off the silliness. I myself went to one of the most left-wing colleges in the country, and I found myself reacting against the environment and becoming more politically conservative during my four years there. Then I went to work on Wall Street and found the opposite happening. I was surrounded by a much more conservative group of people and reacted against that.
Last edited by nsacpi; 11-04-2017 at 09:36 PM.
"I am a victim, I will tell you. I am a victim."
"I am your retribution."
jpx7 (11-05-2017), The Chosen One (11-05-2017)
It didn't have much of an impact on me either, as far as getting me to change my viewpoints. I went to a notoriously left-wing public school for undergrad and am in the process of finishing an MBA at one of the most liberal schools in one of the most liberal neighborhoods in arguably the most liberal city in the country (the latter experience has been pleasantly surprising in both its lack of a political agenda and the intellectual diversity of its professors - my guess is because it's business school, so ultimately we're all there to make more money).
The ironic aspect of my undergrad experience is I decided to go to a public school over a private Jesuit university (my final two choices) partly because I was not/am not religious and wasn't interested in having to take the sequence of religious courses necessary to graduate from the Jesuit school. It was in my first semester of freshman year when I took a "radical multiculturalism" course to satisfy a "diversity" requirement for the public school that I realized I was going to have to sit through courses of a different kind of religion. I probably would have chosen the Jesuit school, had I known.
In hindsight, however, I do think there was a real value in being exposed to so many texts and authors I never would have read on my own. Frankly, I feel sorry for liberal students who will very likely go through their college careers never having their worldviews challenged, thanks to the lack of intellectual diversity on most college campuses. (it doesn't help when any guest speaker right of Obama gets shut down by the more radical elements of student bodies)
Last edited by acesfull86; 11-05-2017 at 09:47 AM.
I largely agree with you—though I admit it is hard for me to know what these schools look like. Pretty much everyone at the university where I went to undergrad has to read a diversity of thought, as much Smith and Hobbes and Weber and Mill as Marx and Fanon and Foucault. But even what faculty I've met, during my first semester of the masters program in which I'm currently working, haven't seemed interested in fostering a hegemony of thought—though, granted, it is a public university within a pretty red/rural state. I guess I just haven't seen a lot of actual cases of this unexamined and close-minded progressivism, nor heard of it from friends with experience at other institutions; so to me it seems a little like a convenient boogeyman—with notable recent exceptions being student groups forcing things (like cancellation of unsavory speakers) upon the administration or faculty.
The latter is not a trend I like. The academy shouldn't be indoctrination, except in the idea that exposure to a wealth of ideas—some you'll find great, some downright ****ty—cultivates a sound mind. But I also think there's a lot more going on here than administrations/faculties brainwashing these kids.
Last edited by jpx7; 11-05-2017 at 02:15 PM.
"For all his tattooings he was on the whole a clean, comely looking cannibal."
Metaphysicist (11-07-2017)
My wife graduated from a large southern state flagship 15 years ago and the hard leftism was already in effect there. An art professor proudly displaying a student's project that featured a double dildo in the hall outside his classroom, a Muslim studies professor celebrating in her class the day after the Twin Towers tragedy, a Women's studies professor who often wore tank tops to show off her unshaved pits, but rarely bathed or gave better than a C to male students, football player friends who majored in AA studies and whose final exam was to tell the class about how their favorite rap song made them feel.
This isn't a new or revolutionary trend at colleges.
My professors were pretty unanimously liberal and had no issues letting everyone know. I remember specifically one guy who was so liberal that I had to alter my paper in order to not be docked on grading
Despite your anecdotes, I don't think what you're describing are trends, but outliers on a fringe. Or, if these were trends fifteen years ago, the pendulum has swung a little bit back—certainly they don't square with my experiences at two very different universities, nor with anything I've heard from a range of friends/colleagues (with fairly diverse educational backgrounds).
Except for the unshaven underarms—that's definitely a still-building trend. But I also don't see what's wrong with it: it seems neither here nor there to me, when thinking about educational outcomes.
"For all his tattooings he was on the whole a clean, comely looking cannibal."
maybe I don't understand your question then... I simply am not willing to compromise on an individual's liberty to do what they please, provided they don't hurt or impair the liberty of others (like abortion, for example)
If they're not currently being taxed in equal measure, why would expect a change of equal measure?
You've made your stances pretty clear dude... you want equal outcomes, not equal opportunities. You want manufactured diversity, and you think certain opinions matter more than others, provided it supports your worldview. And just for fun, youre seemingly completely comfortable with the rampant corruption and hypocrisy of your boy Bernie
Yes
The unshaven armpits weren't the problem, the need to show them off, and the type of person who feels that need, were the problem.
thethe (11-05-2017)
Your very defense against my charge that you take "my comments way past any semblance of what I've said" actually does the very thing you're arguing you don't do.
In some contexts, I do think certain opinions matter more than others: a physicist versus a pharmacist, if the question regards subatomic particles, and vice versa if the question regards my amoxicillin dosage. But I've been pretty clear that I do not think certain opinions matter more than others in the way you mean: for instance, that white male opinions categorically matter less than any other. I've talked about receptivity to certain tactics, and historical weight of certain words, and I've argued that some of the tension is that female and non-white and otherwise marginalized voices matter as much as in a way society hasn't allowed in the past; but I've never said what you continually insist I've said / I believe. It's stupid at this point, but you need to cling to it so you can refuse to engage in the actual topic at hand.
Not entirely true, but not entirely false, either. I want certain equal outcomes, though I'd define it as equal access: minimum standard of living, healthcare, education, and health of ecosystem—things of that nature. To me, that's part and parcel with equal opportunity.
But I do not want the spoooooooky bogeyman "equal outcomes" that you no doubt mean to imply: an oppressive grey Soviet fog descending upon everyone and rendering each individual an inseparable, soulless automaton. There's a lot of space in between those two points—and I thought you supposedly liked nuance.
As I said often during the campaign, my support for Bernie was contingent on policy, not person. I liked the general direction he was pulling the nominally-left party. But I don't make heroes of the politicians I support, and my loyalty only goes as far as their plans for the levers of our institutions. However, while Sanders has surely been hypocritical at points, "rampant corruption" is well more than a bit much.
Good to read you say it.
The problem is, while that line-in-the-sand is nice in theory, it makes a "simply" out of something that isn't simple. There are always these negotiations of and concessions to one form of individual liberty, and they frequently trespass on other forms of individual liberty—the liberty of land-ownership is itself a trespass on the individual liberty of free movement. Likewise, "hurt" is a difficult concept to pin down—a business entity's liberty to pursue its mineral extraction unimpeded certainly has ramifications for the liberty of individuals to enjoy and use clean water down-river from that business.
So maybe what I'm asking is too hard, or too complex; but I'm asking for a much more robust rubric than a single sentence. Even your single example shows this slipperiness: you're opting to preserve one form of individual liberty (that of the unborn child to have the opportunity to be carried to term) over another (the right of a woman to make her own medical decisions about processes occurring within her own body)—and "hurt or impair", depending on how you define your terms, can cut both ways. It's also a much more complicated litigation of liberty than the simple binary you're falling back on, so I want a more expansive description of your lines.
Last edited by jpx7; 11-05-2017 at 05:13 PM.
"For all his tattooings he was on the whole a clean, comely looking cannibal."
Super (11-06-2017)
Genuine question: Why is it a problem?
"For all his tattooings he was on the whole a clean, comely looking cannibal."
I was wondering about that too. Glad you asked the question.
"I am a victim, I will tell you. I am a victim."
"I am your retribution."
$228 tax increase for family making 50k
Lol
Last edited by goldfly; 11-06-2017 at 03:39 PM.
"For there is always light, if only we are brave enough to see it. If only we are brave enough to be it." Amanda Gorman
"When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross"
Because it's an indication that the class is centered on the person and not the subject matter.
I feel like our system does a great job of incentivizing smart people to pursue lucrative degrees. It fails at preparing them to complete those degrees. I think the main justification many college students have for pursuing liberal arts degree is along the way they were told by some enabling dip **** that they could always take the LSAT and go to law school.
The waitlist for machine learning classes at Berkeley is massive. Like if you don't have the enrollment period it's you don't have a prayer type massive. On the contrary, Dutch studies won't allow students to audit the course because they need every possible student they can get to register so they can justify their presence. College students love money - we don't need to help them understand what will pay the bills.
The problem isn't interest in medicine, accounting, match, computer science, etc. Its that these degrees are simply too difficult for people to complete them.
College students are ultimately being failed by their parents by not teaching them math and logic skills when they are young. If I had a dime for every time I have heard a parent joke about not being able to help their kid with their algebra homework...
Last edited by chop2chip; 11-06-2017 at 05:30 PM.
I think the only reason I ended up studying economics and now engineering in grad school was because of reading about sabermetrics as a teenager. We need to fix K-12 education so it helps kids learn why they should love math.
acesfull86 (11-07-2017)
So you could say Moneyball changed your life
Adam Dunn for life bruh
Not sure I remotely buy that, in this small and particular instance.
"For all his tattooings he was on the whole a clean, comely looking cannibal."
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