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Thread: Legal/scotus thread

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    Waiting for Free Agency acesfull86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by striker42 View Post
    Whether killing a fetus should be a crime or not depends on what its status is. What rights it has and duties it's owed.

    If you decide it's the same as any other person you should be out campaigning to outlaw abortion.

    If you decide it has no status, you should be out campaigning against abortion as violating women's rights.

    My only point is that deciding what the status of a fetus is is a personal decision with no objective answer.
    Agreed with both of your posts.

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    if my thought dreams could be seen goldfly's Avatar
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    Brilliant take freedom boy

    Totally the same thing man
    "For there is always light, if only we are brave enough to see it. If only we are brave enough to be it." Amanda Gorman

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    So if a husband and wife decide not to have any more children after having four, should we mourn the unborn fifth child and that child's never to be born children and grandchildren?

    Or is it different if that unborn fifth child was never conceived?

    Does the difference arise at the moment of conception or a later point?
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    "I am your retribution."

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    The best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to make sure he doesn’t get a gun.

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    Talk about sophomoric

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    It's OVER 5,000! 57Brave's Avatar
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    glad you agree
    Last edited by 57Brave; 05-19-2019 at 10:14 AM.
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    I see and hear this sentiment expressed by more and more women. Of all ages,stripes,colors and creeds
    I mean after all ...


    Anna Fitzpatrick
    ‏Verified account @bananafitz
    18h18 hours ago


    "what if your parents had aborted you"

    yeah ok what if your parents

    had decided to have sex on a different day than the one you

    were conceived on, they would have made an entirely different human

    who knows how to mind their ****ing business
    Last edited by 57Brave; 05-19-2019 at 10:22 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 57Brave View Post
    This is a terrible argument. First, it assumes the fetus is part of the woman's body. That's the real argument. You could just as easily write out a bunch of times "Murdering babies is wrong". You've made an assumption on the same issue.

    Second, it's a bad argument that you can't have a valid opinion on an issue that doesn't personally affect you. It would be like saying you can't say the Hutu's we're wrong unless you're a Tutsi.

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    Where do I sign up for this "no one can tell me what to do with my body" ****. It's kind of what the government does. Enforces other peoples morality standards on you and your body. It's not your body. It's not your child. It's not your property. It's the governments. If you want to own yourself then your gonna have to stop voting for Republicrats.
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    It’s over."


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    Quote Originally Posted by striker42 View Post
    This is a terrible argument. First, it assumes the fetus is part of the woman's body. That's the real argument. You could just as easily write out a bunch of times "Murdering babies is wrong". You've made an assumption on the same issue.

    Second, it's a bad argument that you can't have a valid opinion on an issue that doesn't personally affect you. It would be like saying you can't say the Hutu's we're wrong unless you're a Tutsi.
    No I’m sure it’s a line of “reasoning” that totally works on people who think a fetus has human rights. Bet it’s changed countless minds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by striker42 View Post
    This is a terrible argument. First, it assumes the fetus is part of the woman's body. That's the real argument. You could just as easily write out a bunch of times "Murdering babies is wrong". You've made an assumption on the same issue.

    Second, it's a bad argument that you can't have a valid opinion on an issue that doesn't personally affect you. It would be like saying you can't say the Hutu's we're wrong unless you're a Tutsi.
    Who is arguing ?
    this is a growing sentiment among women
    Where I recognize their point

    I don't find your comparison apt

    21st century opposition stems from a fanatic moral / political bent.
    Outside of Westboro Baptist etc, we never hear of a political movement to curtail abortion until (R) needs to mobilize the (fanatic moral) base
    You can look that up
    After 50 years of consideration . I have yet to hear a convincing argument that aborting a fetus constitutes murder.


    Interesting reading the history of abortion , legal /medical
    Last edited by 57Brave; 05-19-2019 at 01:28 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 57Brave View Post
    Who is arguing ?
    this is a growing sentiment among women
    Where I recognize their point

    I don't find your comparison apt

    21st century opposition stems from a fanatic moral / political bent.
    Outside of Westboro Baptist etc, we never hear of a political movement to curtail abortion until (R) needs to mobilize the (fanatic moral) base
    You can look that up
    After 50 years of consideration . I have yet to hear a convincing argument that aborting a fetus constitutes murder.


    Interesting reading the history of abortion , legal /medical
    Then it's a stupid sentiment. The idea that you can't hold a valid opinion on an issue that doesn't personally affect you is nonsense.

    There are few barbers in legislatures so should legislatures not pass laws requiring licenses to be a barber?

    You can hold a valid, informed opinion on abortion without being a woman. There are far more valid sentiments to put out there.

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    The difference is having an opinion about pregnancy and being pregnant.


    My guess is barbers have a whole lot of input in licensing barbers.
    My next guess is long long ago a guild of barbers created the concept of licensing barbers
    Protecting the brand and all

    Again, your comparison misses the point.
    .................................................. ..........

    I have found no comparison to being pregnant.
    Be it civil war or cutting hair. Or for gods sake, the death penalty
    .............

    No such thing as a stupid sentiment.
    Surprised to see you of all people say that
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    Quote Originally Posted by 57Brave View Post
    The difference is having an opinion about pregnancy and being pregnant.


    My guess is barbers have a whole lot of input in licensing barbers.
    My next guess is long long ago a guild of barbers created the concept of licensing barbers
    Protecting the brand and all

    Again, your comparison misses the point.
    .................................................. ..........

    I have found no comparison to being pregnant.
    Be it civil war or cutting hair. Or for gods sake, the death penalty
    .............

    No such thing as a stupid sentiment.
    Surprised to see you of all people say that
    I will call a sentiment stupid when it relies on an assumption that you're right about the true issue of the debate. It's just an attempt at claiming moral high ground by ignoring the true issue (status of a fetus) which has no easy, objective answer. I have no tolerance for such things.

    This is why I hate the abortion debate. People ignore the central issue and act like they're morally superior.

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    Quote Originally Posted by striker42 View Post
    I will call a sentiment stupid when it relies on an assumption that you're right about the true issue of the debate. It's just an attempt at claiming moral high ground by ignoring the true issue (status of a fetus) which has no easy, objective answer. I have no tolerance for such things.

    This is why I hate the abortion debate. People ignore the central issue and act like they're morally superior.

    The conservatives are worried about the status of the fetus while the others are worried about a woman’s rights. It boggles my mind that so many think this is about a woman’s body or some kind of right when it’s about a fetus that needs to be protected.

    The same people who care so much about taking guns away because of all school shootings have no problem murdering a fetus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by striker42 View Post
    I will call a sentiment stupid when it relies on an assumption that you're right about the true issue of the debate. It's just an attempt at claiming moral high ground by ignoring the true issue (status of a fetus) which has no easy, objective answer. I have no tolerance for such things.

    This is why I hate the abortion debate. People ignore the central issue and act like they're morally superior.
    Perhaps it is the disagreement of what is the "central issue" that troubles you.

    Who is claiming "moral high ground" or harboring feelings "of moral superiority" ?
    Certainly not me

    Peoples sentiments are peoples sentiments.
    You feeling uncomfortable with another sentiment does not make it "stupid"

    Many many women have issue with people that will never be pregnant and with a 6th graders knowledge of reproductive biology creating laws that effect their health.
    Perhaps respecting those people and opening dialogue would go further than dismissing them as "stupid"
    Why would anyone , especially a lawyer hate any debate ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by 57Brave View Post
    Perhaps it is the disagreement of what is the "central issue" that troubles you.

    Who is claiming "moral high ground" or harboring feelings "of moral superiority" ?
    Certainly not me

    Peoples sentiments are peoples sentiments.
    You feeling uncomfortable with another sentiment does not make it "stupid"

    Many many women have issue with people that will never be pregnant and with a 6th graders knowledge of reproductive biology creating laws that effect their health.
    Perhaps respecting those people and opening dialogue would go further than dismissing them as "stupid"
    Why would anyone , especially a lawyer hate any debate ?

    Because your point is bull****.

    The debate is at what point is a fetus a living being and should be treated as such. It’s not about any of your stupid liberal talking points.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krgrecw View Post

    The debate is at what point is a fetus a living being and should be treated as such.
    I'm curious how everyone would answer this question.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 57Brave View Post
    Perhaps it is the disagreement of what is the "central issue" that troubles you.

    Who is claiming "moral high ground" or harboring feelings "of moral superiority" ?
    Certainly not me

    Peoples sentiments are peoples sentiments.
    You feeling uncomfortable with another sentiment does not make it "stupid"

    Many many women have issue with people that will never be pregnant and with a 6th graders knowledge of reproductive biology creating laws that effect their health.
    Perhaps respecting those people and opening dialogue would go further than dismissing them as "stupid"
    Why would anyone , especially a lawyer hate any debate ?
    I've seen that meme about men making laws about women's bodies a half dozen times the last few days. Every time it was with the air of moral superiority.

    I'm not uncomfortable with the sentiment. It's poorly reasoned. Probably because it's not the product of reason. It's an emotional reaction. One without any thought or analysis. It has no intelligence behind it and so it's stupid.

    Arguing that legislators need to do more research and be more informed of a valid position. That applies to a lot of issues. Stating a male shouldn't have a say on abortion is completely different.

    I enjoy debate. The abortion "debate" is not really debate. It 95% people spouting glib, poorly reasoned talking points or making inflammatory statements.

    Whether it's a celebrity railing about an attack on bodily autonomy or someone screaming abortion is murder, both statements are based on an assumption about the status of a fetus. It annoys me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krgrecw View Post
    The debate is at what point is a fetus a living being and should be treated as such.
    I honestly don't care what anyone's position on this is so long as they've given it thought and consideration and understand that someone disagreeing with them doesn't make that person evil.

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