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Thread: Legal/scotus thread

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    Legal/scotus thread

    Making this thread for me to post and talk about interesting legal matters and supreme court cases.


    First off.

    http://amp.miamiherald.com/news/nati...182031196.html


    http://www.ozarkradionews.com/missou...-sues-attorney

    All kinds of legal shenanigans going on at Gitmo. A military judge held a marine general in contempt of court for releasing a defendants lawyers who resigned because the government insists on listening to the attorneys meetings with their client and the government refuses to let them see the evidence. The law for these military courts is that in a death penalty case the defendant must have a lawyer that has experience in death penalty cases. The General claims the court has no jurisdiction over him because he is a US citizen and this court was set up for foreign soldiers.
    "State power feeds on crisis and enemies"

    John T. Flynn 1944

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    http://www.news.com.au/technology/on...d6b5e1ab432798


    Careful what emojis you send. Especially if your somewhere where stickupbuttitis is rampant like schools.
    "State power feeds on crisis and enemies"

    John T. Flynn 1944

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    Quote Originally Posted by cajunrevenge View Post
    Making this thread for me to post and talk about interesting legal matters and supreme court cases.


    First off.

    http://amp.miamiherald.com/news/nati...182031196.html


    http://www.ozarkradionews.com/missou...-sues-attorney

    All kinds of legal shenanigans going on at Gitmo. A military judge held a marine general in contempt of court for releasing a defendants lawyers who resigned because the government insists on listening to the attorneys meetings with their client and the government refuses to let them see the evidence. The law for these military courts is that in a death penalty case the defendant must have a lawyer that has experience in death penalty cases. The General claims the court has no jurisdiction over him because he is a US citizen and this court was set up for foreign soldiers.
    "Camp Justice" is a nice accidental pun for what's going on down there.

    The previous President really erred in reneging on his promise to close/transfer this operation.
    "For all his tattooings he was on the whole a clean, comely looking cannibal."

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    "If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin. It is a very great mistake to imagine that the object of loyalty is the authority and interest of one individual man, however dignified by the applause or enriched by the success of popular actions. Samuel Adams

    "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act" George Orwell

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    ...A big part of the problem is that sexual-orientation anti-discrimination laws are now being used to “punish the wicked,” in the words of Tim Gill, their biggest financial backer (to the tune of $500 million). But anti-discrimination policies should serve as shields, not swords. They are meant to shield people from unjust discrimination that might prevent them from flourishing in society. They aren’t supposed to be swords used to punish people for acting on their reasonable beliefs.

    Justice Samuel Alito pointed to this reality during oral arguments. At the time that Jack Phillips declined to bake a same-sex wedding cake, Colorado wouldn’t even recognize — let alone issue — same-sex marriage licenses. So the same-sex couple couldn’t get the state of Colorado to recognize their relationship as a marriage. “And yet when he goes to this bake shop, and he says I want a wedding cake, and the baker says, no, I won’t do it, in part because same-sex marriage was not allowed in Colorado at the time, he’s created a grave wrong,” Alito stated. “How does that all that fit together?”...

    ...We must refuse to use anti-discrimination laws as swords to impose sexual orthodoxy on the nation. As Americans continue to disagree about sex, we must refuse to weaponize the redefinition of marriage. Even Justice Kennedy seemed alert to this in oral arguments for Masterpiece. “Tolerance is essential in a free society,” he said. But, he continued, “It seems to me that the state in its position here has neither been tolerant nor respectful of Mr. Phillips’s religious beliefs.”

    Anti-gay bigotry exists and should be condemned. But support for marriage as the union of husband and wife isn’t anti-gay. Just as we’ve combated sexism without treating pro-life medicine as sexist, we can combat anti-gay bigotry without treating Orthodox Jews, Roman Catholics, Muslims, Evangelicals, and Latter-day Saints as bigots. Not every disagreement is discrimination. And our law shouldn’t say otherwise.


    Link
    Last edited by BedellBrave; 12-07-2017 at 07:00 PM.

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    "There are fine constitutional lawyers who can argue back and forth about the Masterpiece Cakeshop case the Supreme Court heard last week, which will determine whether a Christian baker can decline to make a same-sex couple’s wedding cake. The court’s decision will either limit antidiscrimination law or limit First Amendment protections, so it’s not surprising that you can find deeply-footnoted legal arguments on both sides.

    Nor is it surprising that I’m on the side of the baker. But I’m not going to make a constitutional argument for his rights. I’m going to make a political argument for why our country would be better off if he were left alone to bake his cakes.

    The United States has the rules of a democratic republic but, increasingly, the cultural divisions of a sprawling Old World empire. We are governed by a Constitution, by the power of national majorities (or minorities with good luck in the Electoral College), and our laws are basically uniform across the land. But the scale and diversity of our country is vast and wild, encompassing immigrants from every part of the world and a native population riven by racial divisions, ideological wars, and a widening religious chasm.

    Democratic life requires accepting that your own faction may be out of power roughly half the time. But in a culture this diverse and divided we trust our fellow citizens less, we share less with them, and we fear that any political defeat will leave our communities at their mercy, that if we lose power we will be routed and destroyed.

    Meanwhile because we are so distant from our rivals, we cannot recognize that they share the same fears about what will happen if power is in our hands — or else we dismiss those fears as the pleadings of a wicked claque whose destruction is entirely merited.

    As a conservative Catholic who works in a liberal milieu, I watched this happen after Obergefell v. Hodges. For its opponents, the same-sex marriage ruling was less frightening for what it did than for what they feared might follow: not just legal same-sex nuptials, but a sweeping legal campaign against the sexual revolution’s dissidents, in which conservative believers would be prodded out of various occupations, while their schools and hospitals and charities would be fined and taxes and regulated and de-accredited to death.

    And liberals who felt ascendant in the Obama years simply couldn’t accept this fear as something to be managed and assuaged; to them, it was either ridiculous alarmism or a cloak for bigotry. So while the Obama White House was requiring nuns to pay for abortifacients and the A.C.L.U. was suing Catholic hospitals for not performing sterilizations and state bureaucrats were trying to punish a handful of Christians in the wedding industry, what Rod Dreher called “the law of merited impossibility” dominated the liberal mind: Religious conservatives were worrying about attacks on their institutions that would never arrive, and when the attacks did arrive they obviously deserved it.

    Which in turn encouraged religious conservatives to vote rather desperately for a celebrity strongman named Donald Trump. At which point the roles reversed, and suddenly it was a certain kind of right-winger who couldn’t understand why blacks and Hispanics and Muslims might feel threatened by the new president, why Trump’s rhetoric might make them fear for their very safety, why causes conservatives regarded as procedurally neutral exercises in enforcing laws — illegal-immigrant roundups, strict voter ID laws — were experienced as acts of white-identitarian aggression.

    This kind of cycle of incomprehension and aggression tends to destroy republics if it isn’t broken, if leaders can’t compromise ideological principles to maintain civic peace, if partisans can’t imagine how the world looks in communities vastly different from their own.

    Race and religion are the crucial loci here. We need a liberalism that doesn’t just rely on demographic replacement to win elections and a conservatism that doesn’t just rely on fears of that replacement to hold its own. And we need a way to make the new shape of religion in America, in which a Christian core looks resilient, the lukewarm are secularizing and non-Christian faiths expand apace, feel less threatening to everybody — so that conservatives stop panicking about Shariah law every time a mosque goes up nearby, and the left stops preening about social justice while dragging nuns and florists into court.

    I’ve written before that one hope is a president who behaves like a good emperor, who acts to reassure threatened-feeling out-groups in a way that Obama failed to do and Trump is incapable of even attempting.

    But Anthony Kennedy is also an imperial figure, and he has a chance to rule like a good emperor in the Masterpiece Cakeshop case, to balance his Obergefell decision with a panic-defusing counterpoint.

    Liberalism won the same-sex marriage battle. Religious conservatism isn’t going away. We all have to find a way to live together. That goal requires some compromise and magnanimity. Here is an opportunity: Please, for the sake of the country, leave the baker alone."

    Link

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    Quote Originally Posted by BedellBrave View Post
    Strong work.
    I could've been six feet under
    I could've been lost forever
    Yeah I should be in that fire
    But now there's fire inside of me

    Crowder

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    Apparently you can swear on anything. This councilman took his oath by swearing on captain America's shield. I don't care what his politics are he has my vote.
    "State power feeds on crisis and enemies"

    John T. Flynn 1944

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    Net Neutrality is gone
    "If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin. It is a very great mistake to imagine that the object of loyalty is the authority and interest of one individual man, however dignified by the applause or enriched by the success of popular actions. Samuel Adams

    "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act" George Orwell

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    Classic solution in search of a problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cajunrevenge View Post




    Apparently you can swear on anything. This councilman took his oath by swearing on captain America's shield. I don't care what his politics are he has my vote.
    I"d have chosen the Ironman suit personally.

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    Reenactment of an all time great deposition.
    "State power feeds on crisis and enemies"

    John T. Flynn 1944

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    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/20/u...-mistrial.html



    Mistrial declared in Bundy trial because the prosecutors failed to turn over evidence. Hardly surprising because the government doesn't play by the rules they want to enforce on us. Failing to disclose evidence is a crime yet none of them will be prosecuted because they are government agents. Who is going to prosecute them? Their butt buddies in their own office?




    There's also allegations of severe misconduct and criminal actions by the former lead investigator who says he was removed from the case after properly following chain of command and bringing the matter to his superiors.



    http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-sta...ges_misco.html



    This whole trial has turned around. The government is on the defensive now. The Bundys only real hope before was jury nullification which they have used to win before as juries are siding with the Bundys because off the heavy handed tactics of the government such as refusing to allow them to discuss the reasons for what happened and telling the defense any witness the defense brings in support of Bundy would be leave the courtroom in handcuffs and most likely be charged with very serious crimes.



    What has really surprised me is the judge showing any amount of integrity by declaring a mistrial. Judges are almost always extremely pro government and have been known to disregard illegal actions by government agents because they are biased. One example is allowing evidence found in what the judge ruled as an illegal search to be used against the defendant. The judge will allow the government to prosecute this case 100 times of need be.
    Last edited by cajunrevenge; 12-22-2017 at 05:23 AM.
    "State power feeds on crisis and enemies"

    John T. Flynn 1944

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    **NOT ACTUALLY RACIST
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    The bundy charges were an overreach. No way a court of their peers would have found them guilty.

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    Bake them a schitty cake.

    Solves all problems.

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    Waiting for Free Agency striker42's Avatar
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    If I had to make a prediction about the Masterpiece Cakeshop case, I'll predict that the court will decide the case on the artistic argument rather than the religious argument. There's far more precedent about expression out there than there is about free exercise.

    Anyone who thinks making a custom cake like this is not an artistic expression needs to go watch some more food network. It would be simple for the court to hold that the first amendment prevents the government from mandating people create works of artistic expression and since this cake was "artistic expression", the public accommodations law violated this individual's first amendment rights. I think it's possible that you could get a liberal justice to join with a decision like this (unlikely because of the complete lack of intellectual honesty that infests both sides of the court).

    The problem with a holding like this is one of definitions. It opens up the question of what "artistic expression" is. Could a Subway "sandwich artist" claim artistic expression in the creation of a sub?

    It also just kicks the issue further down the road. If you don't address the issue of free exercise, you'll eventually see the case of a for profit wedding venue refusing to host a gay wedding make its way to the SCOTUS.

    But the high court has never been shy about offloading the heavy lifting of coming up with definitions onto the lower courts and loves punting on hot button issues. So I think the case will be decided based on freedom of expression/speech grounds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by striker42 View Post
    If I had to make a prediction about the Masterpiece Cakeshop case, I'll predict that the court will decide the case on the artistic argument rather than the religious argument. There's far more precedent about expression out there than there is about free exercise.

    Anyone who thinks making a custom cake like this is not an artistic expression needs to go watch some more food network. It would be simple for the court to hold that the first amendment prevents the government from mandating people create works of artistic expression and since this cake was "artistic expression", the public accommodations law violated this individual's first amendment rights. I think it's possible that you could get a liberal justice to join with a decision like this (unlikely because of the complete lack of intellectual honesty that infests both sides of the court).

    The problem with a holding like this is one of definitions. It opens up the question of what "artistic expression" is. Could a Subway "sandwich artist" claim artistic expression in the creation of a sub?

    It also just kicks the issue further down the road. If you don't address the issue of free exercise, you'll eventually see the case of a for profit wedding venue refusing to host a gay wedding make its way to the SCOTUS.

    But the high court has never been shy about offloading the heavy lifting of coming up with definitions onto the lower courts and loves punting on hot button issues. So I think the case will be decided based on freedom of expression/speech grounds.
    This is the argument I have seen on TV and heard on the radio during commercial breaks (in between Christmas music, lol)

    They DO NOT HAVE AN ISSUE baking the cake, it is what is put on the cake they have an issue with. That is why I say create a schitty cake if you don't agree with their lifestyle.

    There are some restaurants in town I will not visit because I had the impression they did not want blacks in their establishment, so I won't give them my money any more (no, I am a great tipper unlike Gilesfan)

    Great post Striker.

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    https://www.azcentral.com/story/news...ial/592019001/



    It appears the jury did use jury nullification in the Bundy trial specifically because they saw it as nothing more than a kangaroo court. Jurors were specifically upset when the Judge adjourned court while one defendant was testifying and ordered his testimony stricken from the record. I know many of you are not fans on these people but jury nullification is an important right the government tries desperately to keep you from knowing about. The more people know about jury nullification the less power the government has to impose the will of the minority on the majority.
    "State power feeds on crisis and enemies"

    John T. Flynn 1944

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    3 walmart employees charged with manslaughter after they try to restrain a shoplifter and he dies. Remember this next time cops say they shouldnt be charged because they were just doing their job. The employees have every right to stop shoplifters and they were just doing their job yet they still have go to trial and most likely spend a lot of time behind bars even if found innocent. The cops want to strictly enforce the law on us and want it loosely enforced on them.
    "State power feeds on crisis and enemies"

    John T. Flynn 1944

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    https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/12/...-a-neo-nazi-2/




    Nazi 17 year old who killed his girlfriends parents is being charged as a juvenile. Really? In a land where we charge 12 year old black kids as adults we charge a 17 year old Nazi as a juvenile....
    "State power feeds on crisis and enemies"

    John T. Flynn 1944

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