JJ traded

[Enscheff]

I think the Angels did pretty well here. They got an average arm being paid a bit more than market value and enough pool space to make a decent offer for Ohtani or to sign some of the Braves freed prospects...for a fungible arm.

The Braves got salary relief, so we won’t know the benefits until we see what they do with the extra cash.

[nsacpi]

by my rough calculation 1m of pool space is worth over 5M in expected surplus value...quite a good trade for the Angels if they are the ones receiving pool space

[clvclv]

by my rough calculation 1m of pool space is worth over 5M in expected surplus value...quite a good trade for the Angels if they are the ones receiving pool space

Certainly seems to be a good move from their perspective. Will be interesting to see what AA does with the $9 million when Adams disappears as well.

As others have mentioned, this could easily be addition by subtraction if Lindgren pitches as well as Johnson, and the money's well spent elsewhere.

One of the other possibilities no one else has mentioned is using the money saved to make one of Markakis or Kemp disappear.

[Enscheff]

by my rough calculation 1m of pool space is worth over 5M in expected surplus value...quite a good trade for the Angels if they are the ones receiving pool space

Agreed.

The Braves are obviously clearing payroll space.

Let’s just hope they’re doing it to make room for additions and not just to lower payroll due to dramatically lowered revenue projections. Probably both.

[Southcack77]

They didn’t trade “a slot”, they traded $1.21M of pool space.

Considering JJ is an average pitcher, that isn’t a very impressive return for such a large chunk of pool space. The Braves got an equally unimpressive return from the Reds for $1.25M in space.

Folks will be disappointed in the returns the Braves get by trading their future pool money because they have unrealistic expectations of what it’s worth.

Yes, remaining pool rather than slot. Slot was the old system.

And yes, I did forget that the Angels probably assign some value to Jim Johnson. I got carried away by all the talk that the Braves would end up having to release Jim Johnson and that may not have been actually been true. Probably could have moved him sending money.

I am still curious about the comparative value of a team's entire international pool and the draft picks that can be traded. Is there an instance where a team would rather have 5 million more to spend on the international market than have a late first or second round pick?

I don't know the answer. I'm asking.

[nsacpi]

Yes, remaining pool rather than slot. Slot was the old system.

And yes, I did forget that the Angels probably assign some value to Jim Johnson. I got carried away by all the talk that the Braves would end up having to release Jim Johnson and that may not have been actually been true. Probably could have moved him sending money.

I am still curious about the comparative value of a team's entire international pool and the draft picks that can be traded. Is there an instance where a team would rather have 5 million more to spend on the international market than have a late first or second round pick?

I don't know the answer. I'm asking.

As I understand it we gave them pool space to take Johnson.

[nsacpi]

I am still curious about the comparative value of a team's entire international pool and the draft picks that can be traded. Is there an instance where a team would rather have 5 million more to spend on the international market than have a late first or second round pick?

Here's a rough way to value pool space. Currently $5M per team. I think on average teams generate about 1 decent major leaguer per year with their international signings. Say a player who generates 10 WAR of value before hitting free agency. Which makes their surplus value about 5 WAR. 5 WAR nowadays is with about 40M. So $5M of pool space generates about 40M of of expected surplus value. That makes the exchange rate about 8 to 1. So us giving the Angels about 1M of pool space is equivalent to trading a player worth about 8M in expected surplus value.

Unless I'm missing something this is an awfully one-sided trade for the Angels.

[Southcack77]

by my rough calculation 1m of pool space is worth over 5M in expected surplus value...quite a good trade for the Angels if they are the ones receiving pool space

I love it for the Angels since I'm under the assumption that Johnson's salary is not a major concern for them and they can absorb it.

If so, Johnson can rebound and they have a great reliever and a possible small trade piece. Moreover, they get money to go play in a shallow pool that has suddenly has a number of fish in it. Can't see the downside for them.

With the Braves they've freed up some money to do ... something. They could end up losing if Johnson does rebound and they don't much of any use with the money.

[Enscheff]

Here's a rough way to value pool space. Currently $5M per team. I think on average teams generate about 1 decent major leaguer per year with their international signings. Say a player who generates 10 WAR of value before hitting free agency. Which makes their surplus value about 5 WAR. 5 WAR nowadays is with about 40M. So $5M of pool space generates about 40M of of expected surplus value. That makes the exchange rate about 8 to 1. So us giving the Angels about 1M of pool space is equivalent to trading a player worth about 8M in expected surplus value.

Unless I'm missing something this is an awfully one-sided trade for the Angels.

Yeah, the first notable trade in the AA era appears to be an easy one to mark as a loss.

Makes me think there is a lot of pressure to reduce payroll.

[nsacpi]

Yeah, the first notable trade in the AA era appears to be an easy one to mark as a loss.

Makes me think there is a lot of pressure to reduce payroll.

the most charitable interpretation I can give it is he has a lot of faith in his ability to uncover cheap but effective relievers

[Southcack77]

As I understand it we gave them pool space to take Johnson.

I was just trying to acknowledge that the Angels didn't pay the whole $5 million for the slot, because Johnson probably does have some value.

Unless they simply cut him. Then that would suggest he had no value. But I assume they aren't going to do that.

[Enscheff]

Yes, remaining pool rather than slot. Slot was the old system.

And yes, I did forget that the Angels probably assign some value to Jim Johnson. I got carried away by all the talk that the Braves would end up having to release Jim Johnson and that may not have been actually been true. Probably could have moved him sending money.

I am still curious about the comparative value of a team's entire international pool and the draft picks that can be traded. Is there an instance where a team would rather have 5 million more to spend on the international market than have a late first or second round pick?

I don't know the answer. I'm asking.

You should probably stop reading Wherever you were seeing suggestions that the Braves would release JJ lol.

Clv’s blog or XM radio maybe haha?

[Enscheff]

I was just trying to acknowledge that the Angels didn't pay the whole $5 million for the slot, because Johnson probably does have some value.

Unless they simply cut him. Then that would suggest he had no value. But I assume they aren't going to do that.

Cut JJ?

Where are you getting your info about player value?

[Southcack77]

Cut JJ?

Where are you getting your info about player value?

Damn it. I'm just trying to say you were right. I'm not saying anyone is going to cut him.

Johnson has value. Therefore, the Angels did not pay $5 million just for the pool money. I was posting too quickly and didn't consider Johnson's value in the equation.

[striker42]

Not a terrific first trade for AA. Johnson's peripherals make him a good chance to rebound. I have no desire to keep him in Atlanta but you'd think someone would be willing to take a flyer. He's not owed that much money considering what relievers are getting. Throwing in the international money seems excessive. Seems like that could have been better employed elsewhere.

[nsacpi]

bring back Hartcoppy!

[bravesfanforlife88]

im okay with the trade. did not want JJ back.

Free up around $9 mil with JJ and Adams gone. Maybe more with some other guys like Peterson, Santana, etc.

Will not be happy with the direction of the team if that money is not applied to improve the team and the payroll is actually cut like some people are thinking. Now is the wrong time to be doing so.

[bravesfanMatt]

I am not seeing this as a loss. it is a win for the Angels for sure, but the Braves are just dumping the money they can't use anyway and clearing salary, while making room for the younger relievers, opening a roster spot and trading a guy early enough in the off season to accomplish other goals the team might have. .. It will be disappointing if this is a move that was made without it connecting to another dot though.

[jpx7]

I am not seeing this as a loss. it is a win for the Angels for sure, but the Braves are just dumping the money they can't use anyway and clearing salary, while making room for the younger relievers, opening a roster spot and trading a guy early enough in the off season to accomplish other goals the team might have. .. It will be disappointing if this is a move that was made without it connecting to another dot though.

It's only "a loss" for the Braves if you're laboring under the assumption the Braves could have received more for Johnson and/or the bonus pool money. Perhaps they could have—perhaps Johnson bounces back, and shows greater value in spring or at the deadline—but obviously this was his value right now, and seemingly the Braves wanted the money off the books and the spot free on the roster right now. As you say, disappointment will hinge on how they use (or don't use) that roster-spot and $5 million.

[Enscheff]

It's only "a loss" for the Braves if you're laboring under the assumption the Braves could have received more for Johnson and/or the bonus pool money. Perhaps they could have—perhaps Johnson bounces back, and shows greater value in spring or at the deadline—but obviously this was his value right now, and seemingly the Braves wanted the money off the books and the spot free on the roster right now. As you say, disappointment will hinge on how they use (or don't use) that roster-spot and $5 million.

The last few trades the Braves have made involving the MLB roster have been pure salary dumps (Jaime Garcia, SRod, JJ, and soon MAdams). This JJ trade stinks of desperation to cut payroll.

That is the upsetting part. The whole point of moving into a new stadium was to generate more revenue that could be pumped into the team. We are seeing exactly the opposite.