JJ traded

[bravesfanMatt]

to Angels along with International money for Justin Kelley?

https://twitter.com/Braves/status/936311494173655040


I don't know anything about anything yet.

[bravesfanMatt]

I like picking up younger players, but I think JJ has a greater chance of a rebound than most.

[bravesfanforlife88]

Bullpen has been instantly improved....addition by subtraction

[Enscheff]

This is how the Braves will be using pool money, no matter what folks try to suggest.

Dumping JJ frees up $5M. Trading MAdams will free up another $4.6M.

I have the Braves at $88M next year after MAdams is dumped with Jace and Santana being non-tender candidates to get them down further to $86M.

The Braves could have anywhere from $12M to $42M to spend this offseason now, depending on what you want to project the 2018 payroll to be.

The resources are there to push for 85+ wins in 2018.

[Enscheff]

Bitter irony: The Braves just gave the Angels pool money they will likely use to sign prospects MLB stripped from the Braves.

[Ozzie Swanson]

Glad I'll never have to watch JJ pitch again.

[bravesfanMatt]

Bitter irony: The Braves just gave the Angels pool money they will likely use to sign prospects MLB stripped from the Braves.

I was reading the MLB trade rumor blurb on it. They said the same thing.. of any team, the halos need some of those guys, so I would be ok with that.

[Southcack77]

Well, that's making the best of a bad situation i guess.

One bright spot is that international slot money must be significantly more valuable that it was before the rules changed. So the Braves may be able to get something out of the slots they can't use. here the Angels bought one for $5 million.

[Southcack77]

I like picking up younger players, but I think JJ has a greater chance of a rebound than most.

He's already done it once.

[Southcack77]

Justin Kelly LHP. College sign out of the 33rd round in 2016. Numbers don't look special. He does seem to have pitched at every level of the Angels' minor league system in 2017 so there is that.

Looks like the Angels got Johnson plus signing pool money, so maybe the Braves managed a clean salary dump.

I would have been tempted to take Johnson to spring training and gamble on a rebound and better return. Dumping him now suggests that they are trying to make some kind of move in the offseason.

[bravesfanMatt]

yeah, Justin Kelly is a nothing. He walked 46 guys in 100 innings. No chance chuckie and his pitching coaches can fix that. This is a clear, we want to get rid of your 5 million JJ type move.

[Knucksie]

Addition by subtraction. Never should've been brought back.

[clvclv]

Justin Kelly LHP. College sign out of the 33rd round in 2016. Numbers don't look special. He does seem to have pitched at every level of the Angels' minor league system in 2017 so there is that.

Looks like the Angels got Johnson plus signing pool money, so maybe the Braves managed a clean salary dump.

I would have been tempted to take Johnson to spring training and gamble on a rebound and better return. Dumping him now suggests that they are trying to make some kind of move in the offseason.

Dumping Johnson and Adams suddenly gives you the money ($9.1 million) to play on Addison Reed/Jake McGee - or (much less likely) a big chunk of change to throw at Holland or Davis.

Follow that up by DFAing Jace, Santana, and Adonis (~ $11.8 million) and you've come up with most of what speculations have that it will cost to make a play for Frazier - without increasing payroll.

[bravesfanforlife88]

Jonathan Mayo of MLB.com reports (via Twitter) that the Angels will receive all of the Braves’ remaining pool space: a total of $1.21MM. While the CBA mandates that pool money must be traded in blocks of $250K, it also outlines an exception in the event that the club’s remaining pool space is less than $250K.

As Mayo notes, this now gives the Braves a total of $1.315MM that they can offer Ohtani (or another international free agent, such as former Braves prospect Kevin Maitan).

[Southcack77]

Jonathan Mayo of MLB.com reports (via Twitter) that the Angels will receive all of the Braves’ remaining pool space: a total of $1.21MM. While the CBA mandates that pool money must be traded in blocks of $250K, it also outlines an exception in the event that the club’s remaining pool space is less than $250K.

As Mayo notes, this now gives the Braves a total of $1.315MM that they can offer Ohtani (or another international free agent, such as former Braves prospect Kevin Maitan).

The Angels can offer Ohtani?

[Enscheff]

Had not thought of valuing the Braves international slots before.

The Angels just valued this one at $5 million dollars.

The year the Braves are shut out of the market and cannot sign prospects about 10k. Do they retain their bonus pool as a traceable asset? If so what is the comparative value between 5 million in international money and a compensation round pick. That seems like a area to explore if they retained the money.

Similarly in the year where they had the pool cut in half is the other slot a trade asset or is it just forfeited. You would think it would be forfeit, but I don't know.

They didn’t trade “a slot”, they traded $1.21M of pool space.

Considering JJ is an average pitcher, that isn’t a very impressive return for such a large chunk of pool space. The Braves got an equally unimpressive return from the Reds for $1.25M in space.

Folks will be disappointed in the returns the Braves get by trading their future pool money because they have unrealistic expectations of what it’s worth.

[nsacpi]

by my rough calculation 1m of pool space is worth over 5M in expected surplus value...quite a good trade for the Angels if they are the ones receiving pool space

[clvclv]

by my rough calculation 1m of pool space is worth over 5M in expected surplus value...quite a good trade for the Angels if they are the ones receiving pool space

Certainly seems to be a good move from their perspective. Will be interesting to see what AA does with the $9 million when Adams disappears as well.

As others have mentioned, this could easily be addition by subtraction if Lindgren pitches as well as Johnson, and the money's well spent elsewhere.

One of the other possibilities no one else has mentioned is using the money saved to make one of Markakis or Kemp disappear.

[Southcack77]

by my rough calculation 1m of pool space is worth over 5M in expected surplus value...quite a good trade for the Angels if they are the ones receiving pool space

I love it for the Angels since I'm under the assumption that Johnson's salary is not a major concern for them and they can absorb it.

If so, Johnson can rebound and they have a great reliever and a possible small trade piece. Moreover, they get money to go play in a shallow pool that has suddenly has a number of fish in it. Can't see the downside for them.

With the Braves they've freed up some money to do ... something. They could end up losing if Johnson does rebound and they don't much of any use with the money.

[Southcack77]

They didn’t trade “a slot”, they traded $1.21M of pool space.

Considering JJ is an average pitcher, that isn’t a very impressive return for such a large chunk of pool space. The Braves got an equally unimpressive return from the Reds for $1.25M in space.

Folks will be disappointed in the returns the Braves get by trading their future pool money because they have unrealistic expectations of what it’s worth.

Yes, remaining pool rather than slot. Slot was the old system.

And yes, I did forget that the Angels probably assign some value to Jim Johnson. I got carried away by all the talk that the Braves would end up having to release Jim Johnson and that may not have been actually been true. Probably could have moved him sending money.

I am still curious about the comparative value of a team's entire international pool and the draft picks that can be traded. Is there an instance where a team would rather have 5 million more to spend on the international market than have a late first or second round pick?

I don't know the answer. I'm asking.