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Thread: Cole to Astros

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by auyushu View Post
    The Astros just got Cole for very little, how on earth is this trade an example of what you just said? The Astros didn't even give up a single top 100 prospect for him (Musgrove was mid 80s to 90ish before he went to the majors, but is a #4/#5 back of the rotation piece at this point).
    Yea, I like Musgrove but more out of the bullpen than starting. The Astros did a great job in this trade IMO. I thought Cole would cost them more than that.

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    Musgrove is like trading Blair during his debut timeframe. Pirates didnt get much here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thewupk View Post
    Musgrove is like trading Blair during his debut timeframe. Pirates didnt get much here.
    Musgrove had a much better minor league career than Blair. Hindsight is 20/20 but I don't see the comparison honestly. Maybe Wisler is more likely which isn't a distinguishable characteristic of Musgrove either. Blair was never any good although my homer self thought he was.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thethe View Post
    Musgrove had a much better minor league career than Blair. Hindsight is 20/20 but I don't see the comparison honestly. Maybe Wisler is more likely which isn't a distinguishable characteristic of Musgrove either. Blair was never any good although my homer self thought he was.
    The comparison is what they are projected to do. Unless you think Musgrove is projected to be better than a backend starter or a plus reliever then that's what you got. Again, the Pirates didn't get much here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thewupk View Post
    The comparison is what they are projected to do. Unless you think Musgrove is projected to be better than a backend starter or a plus reliever then that's what you got. Again, the Pirates didn't get much here.
    I'm a fan of Musgrove and think his size and stuff will translate to an innings eater 3 that will provide tremendous value to the Pirates the next 5 years.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thethe View Post
    Here is the post that Enscheff had in the following thread (which is a great analysis of the Braves pitchers:)

    Newcomb: 65/70 FA, 60 CU, 70 SL, 50 CH

    Newk has TOR stuff. Period. If he continues to post a BB/9 of 5+ he is the most frustrating "stuff #4" in the game. If he improves to Gio-level control (~3.5 BB/9) he is a TOR stud. My money is on him never getting the BBs under control, unfortunately.

    Gohara: 75 FA, 50 SL, 45 CH

    Gohara is a beast with a closer's FA. The SL grade is misleading due to the fact it is the average of 2 different pitches. The CH is usable. Gohara is already a 2-pitch #3 SP, and as he refines his command and CH he will grow into a TOR stud.


    Its very clear from this analysis that Newk has a ceiling that we should all be excited about.
    I’ve also shown data about how often guys with a BB rate that bad improve, especially at his age. It’s very rare.

    Newcomb’s most likely comp is Oliver Perez or Jonathan Sanchez...guys who had limited success due to excellent stiff and horrid command.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    I’ve also shown data about how often guys with a BB rate that bad improve, especially at his age. It’s very rare.

    Newcomb’s most likely comp is Oliver Perez or Jonathan Sanchez...guys who had limited success due to excellent stiff and horrid command.
    Definitely possible - I've just made the point for two years now that Newk has elite stuff. Its an obvious argument that he needs to refine his control but IMO last year was very promising that he reasonable maintained his walk rate at the major league level. Now he needs to improve it although unlikely.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thethe View Post
    Definitely possible - I've just made the point for two years now that Newk has elite stuff. Its an obvious argument that he needs to refine his control but IMO last year was very promising that he reasonable maintained his walk rate at the major league level. Now he needs to improve it although unlikely.
    Right but will he ever be a 3 WAR player? I doubt it. So the argument that he could be a great trade piece for us to get a bat back is a flawed argument. If he can’t get the walks under control, and the Braves haven’t changed any of the pitching coaches throughout the organization which would lead one to believe they would be changing the way they’re teaching players, he won’t be anything more than a fringe starter. The only thing that keeps him as a 3 or 4 is the fact that he’s a lefty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thethe View Post
    I'm a fan of Musgrove and think his size and stuff will translate to an innings eater 3 that will provide tremendous value to the Pirates the next 5 years.
    You and the Pirates GM might be the only ones who think that

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    Quote Originally Posted by thethe View Post
    Musgrove and moran are MLB players with almost full control and scouts seem to like Feliz a lot. Cole has two years left and has had injury issues. I think this is a real good trade for the pirates.
    You won’t find many that agree. Here’s the most recent take on the Pirates return: https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2018/...rds-ozuna.html

    It’s not when evaluators rate a return as “brutal”.

    The Astros are one of the best FOs in the game, and they just showed why.

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