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Thread: Parkland School Shooting

  1. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julio3000 View Post
    I think that's a reasonable point. More guns = potentially more "access" to guns, through theft or off-books sales. "Access" in the larger picture encompassses legal barriers/cost for legal purchases.

    But I do want to have your take on my suggestion, though. "More guns" seems like a less meaningful data point than "broader gun ownership" if you're seeking to establish a positive correlation between higher gun sales and fewer gun homicides.
    I suppose I'm not as interested in the gun ownership numbers because I don't think someone who will commit a mass murder would care about getting the necessary permits to get the weapon.

    But I think the chart I posted above addresses your question

  2. #222
    A Chip Off the Old Rock Julio3000's Avatar
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    What you're positing is a correlation between gun sales and the precipitous drop in gun homicides.

    If the increase in gun sales is explained by sales to existing owners, and the overall slice of gun owners hasn't changed significantly, I'm not sure what the special sauce is that underpins your conclusion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Julio3000 View Post
    What you're positing is a correlation between gun sales and the precipitous drop in gun homicides.

    If the increase in gun sales is explained by sales to existing owners, and the overall slice of gun owners hasn't changed significantly, I'm not sure what the special sauce is that underpins your conclusion.
    I'm not making that argument. The argument I'm making is that more guns =/= more gun deaths

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    Quote Originally Posted by sturg33 View Post
    Tough to find in one chart





    If I have more time, I can plot in a sql database and see how the correlation breaks down. But you can at least eye-ball it here

    Also - I think it's extremely important to remove suicide rates in gun deaths... and I don't know whether this chart does that
    I’m not sure what explains gun violence in this country, but I can with certainty tell you that those charts you just showed tells me very little.

    It would be nice if the issue could be studied, but instead studying the issue scientifically is considered taboo.

  5. #225
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    What's the deal with Nebraska.
    "I am a victim, I will tell you. I am a victim."

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  6. #226
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    Suicide rates and accidental shootings are about 80% of gun homicides.

  7. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krgrecw View Post
    Suicide rates and accidental shootings are about 80% of gun homicides.
    i really don't get the point of saying this stat

    so the other 20% is fine?

    that maybe we shouldn't try to regulate things to maybe help prevent your 80% from happening?


    i thought all lives were precious and we should do ANYTHING to protect it?
    "For there is always light, if only we are brave enough to see it. If only we are brave enough to be it." Amanda Gorman

    "When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross"

  8. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldfly View Post
    i thought all lives were precious and we should do ANYTHING to protect it?
    What about unborn babies?

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    if my thought dreams could be seen goldfly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    What about unborn babies?
    you mean a fetus?


    but since you brought it up, i am down to pass legislation to protect them from guns too. i'm not sure where they would fall in the 80% or 20% that was brought up

    but you know why i brought up that line and should do better than your retort imo.
    "For there is always light, if only we are brave enough to see it. If only we are brave enough to be it." Amanda Gorman

    "When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross"

  10. #230
    if my thought dreams could be seen goldfly's Avatar
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    how Europe views the fetish of this country:

    "For there is always light, if only we are brave enough to see it. If only we are brave enough to be it." Amanda Gorman

    "When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross"

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    Quote Originally Posted by nsacpi View Post
    Yes. I think it would be interesting to look at comparisons across states. There will obviously still be some environmental and cultural differences between the states, but not as large as across countries.

    Cultural/demographic/social differences need to be considered. All the Switzerland, Japan, Sweden comparisons have always seemed a bit out of kilter to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaw View Post
    There are a lot of factors that would be difficult to graph.
    Someone mentioned the demise of two parent homes, which I think has to be a factor. But what age do you pick to measure that? Does the second parent count if they were in the home until the child was in middle school, or high school, or do they have to be there until the day of the shooting?

    Declining church attendance is a potential factor that I see mentioned often. How often does one need to attend in order to count as an attendant? Do they need to do anything to actively participate, or is just occasionally sitting in a pew for an hour good enough?

    What about extracurricular activities? Dating status? Physical appearance? Exercise? Hobbies? What kind of movies do they watch, what books do they read, what kind of music do they listen to?

    Much of this gets blamed (I think correctly) on bullying. How many times does someone need to be picked on before they are bullied? How do we define "picked on?" More importantly, are we actually willing to look into these factors and make unpopular changes to fix the problem? What if those answers aren't politically correct? I have felt for years that the over policing of school fights is a big factor in this. I didn't make this feeling up, it's based on my own experience of being the new kid in school too many times. Bullies don't stop because you tell a powerless teacher that you are being picked on. They don't stop because you tell an overworked guidance counselor about your feelings. They don't even stop when you ask them nicely. Ideally, the bully will have peers around who disapprove of the behavior, but that happens less often that we all would hope. Win or lose, the next best option, the only other option I am aware of, is to attempt to stop it yourself. I was fortunate enough to go to school in a time where that meant detention or an in school suspension. Now that same behavior results in a kid being handcuffed and put in the back of a police car. It's ridiculous to arrest middle school kids for defending themselves when no one else will. Kids fight, it's a pressure relief valve. We've sealed that pressure valve and now we're looking around at each other with dumbfounded expressions while the pots are exploding.

    Excellent post. The issue is exceedingly complex, and my previous posts have been trying to push us each to admit that there may be other factors in this we've tended to overlook or undervalue because of our own bias and penchant for simple fixes, and yet not be deterred from the conversation or from seeking answers

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    Quote Originally Posted by goldfly View Post
    you mean a fetus?


    but since you brought it up, i am down to pass legislation to protect them from guns too. i'm not sure where they would fall in the 80% or 20% that was brought up

    but you know why i brought up that line and should do better than your retort imo.

    How about adding scalpels, vacuum-sucking, salting, etc.?

    Would be nice if we were all more consistently pro-life. I'll give you that.

  14. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by BedellBrave View Post
    How about adding scalpels, vacuum-sucking, salting, etc.?

    Would be nice if we were all more consistently pro-life. I'll give you that.
    I want everyone to have the opportunity to have a life. Once you have the ability to make your own choices then you are on your own. That is what life is all about. But to deny someone even the opportunity to take their first breath is heinous.
    Natural Immunity Croc

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    Quote Originally Posted by BedellBrave View Post
    How about adding scalpels, vacuum-sucking, salting, etc.?

    Would be nice if we were all more consistently pro-life. I'll give you that.
    Why do you hate women?

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    Greg Bluestein
    ‏Verified account @bluestein
    42m42 minutes ago

    More than 1,000 demonstrators gather outside Georgia Capitol calling for gun restrictions.

    Speakers can barely be heard;

    organizers say state officials wouldn’t turn on power to the microphones l


    #gapo
    The best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to make sure he doesn’t get a gun.

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    Media Matters‏Verified account @mmfa

    NRA board member Ted Nugent pushes the conspiracy

    theory that Parkland school shooting survivors are actors


    http://mm4a.org/Znb

    The best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to make sure he doesn’t get a gun.

  20. #238
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    57 can you address my direct questions to you that I asked twice and still haven't gotten a response?

  21. #239
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    CNN Breaking News
    ‏Verified account @cnnbrk
    31m31 minutes ago

    Students at multiple Florida schools are walking out of class to

    show support for the survivors of the Parkland shooting


    http://cnn.it/2sIOOPV


    The best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to make sure he doesn’t get a gun.

  22. #240
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    CNN Breaking News
    ‏Verified account @cnnbrk
    20m20 minutes ago

    Group of Parkland school shooting survivors turned away

    from Florida state Senate president's office after being told

    "appointments only"




    http://cnn.it/2CBMcTv




    The best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to make sure he doesn’t get a gun.

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