Economics Thread

[nsacpi]

Federal debt as % of GDP: 86% in 1950, 129% in 2020

[thethe]

Consolidation of wealth figures?

[nsacpi]

Data on debt service burden (debt payments as a % of income) for American households. Doesn't go back to the 1950s.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/TDSP

[acesfull86]

https://aswathdamodaran.blogspot.com...-ever.html?m=1

^ Good takedown of the billionaire tax scheme

[thethe]

https://aswathdamodaran.blogspot.com...-ever.html?m=1

^ Good takedown of the billionaire tax scheme

You could easily quell his concerns by treating unrealized gains not as a function of just stock ownership but control.

If you own stock in the company you control then you could potentially get a deferral on a sale event.

The argument being made is yet another what I consider to be weak attempt to allow wealth inequality to not only continue but become even larger.


All it talks about is the negative for the poor billionaire with no consideration to what wealth inequality is doing to the rest of the nation.

[sturg33]

You could easily quell his concerns by treating unrealized gains not as a function of just stock ownership but control.

If you own stock in the company you control then you could potentially get a deferral on a sale event.

The argument being made is yet another what I consider to be weak attempt to allow wealth inequality to not only continue but become even larger.


All it talks about is the negative for the poor billionaire with no consideration to what wealth inequality is doing to the rest of the nation.

Wait you support the unrealized gains tax?

[thethe]

Wait you support the unrealized gains tax?

You can easily write it so its just addressing holders and not owners as well as households that can manage the liquidity issues that were mentioned.

If you think that rising inequality is good for the stability of the nation then we are just going to disagree.

You'll say its the Feds fault and mostly I would agree but its the same circle of people that have gamed the system since the advent of the stock market.

[sturg33]

You can easily write it so its just addressing holders and not owners as well as households that can manage the liquidity issues that were mentioned.

If you think that rising inequality is good for the stability of the nation then we are just going to disagree.

You'll say its the Feds fault and mostly I would agree but its the same circle of people that have gamed the system since the advent of the stock market.

It is the feds fault. 100%, no other explanation necessary.

And if you think this stops at the billionaires, then I will point you to the creation of the income tax in 1913.

This is just another way to create a mass slave class... Stop being in favor of the government getting MORE private stuff from citizens

[thethe]

It is the feds fault. 100%, no other explanation necessary.

And if you think this stops at the billionaires, then I will point you to the creation of the income tax in 1913.

This is just another way to create a mass slave class... Stop being in favor of the government getting MORE private stuff from citizens

You don't think we currently have an oligarchy right now?

You think the 'government' is running things? Come on man...

Who do you think drives fed policy?

[Tapate50]

It is the feds fault. 100%, no other explanation necessary.


Stop being in favor of the government getting MORE private stuff from citizens

Cant disagree. Its like a toddler, once you stand firm they learn to operate within the set parameters. We do that with a budget, and you'd be shocked at the "room" that could be created with dead weight spending.

Thing is - we are gonna have to have a candidate come in there and be the bad guy.

[Krgrecw]

You don't think we currently have an oligarchy right now?

You think the 'government' is running things? Come on man...

Who do you think drives fed policy?

Who cares? All systems have warts. The devil you know is better than the devil you don’t know.

[thethe]

Who cares? All systems have warts. The devil you know is better than the devil you don’t know.

The devil we know has led to massive instability in the nation.

I'll pass on this devil and create a system where advancement from middle class to upper middle class is more likely.

[sturg33]

You don't think we currently have an oligarchy right now?

You think the 'government' is running things? Come on man...

Who do you think drives fed policy?

You seem to understand that the government is horrific at everything, and you are calling for them to take more money to more horrific things. And you blindly trust that they will only stop at billionaires.

I got news for you... billionaires ain't going to pay for these deficits... everyone is gonna need to be taxed into oblivion to get us out of this debt

[thethe]

You seem to understand that the government is horrific at everything, and you are calling for them to take more money to more horrific things. And you blindly trust that they will only stop at billionaires.

I got news for you... billionaires ain't going to pay for these deficits... everyone is gonna need to be taxed into oblivion to get us out of this debt

You are looking at the government as it functions now.

I'm for term limits for congress so we don't have career politicians working hand in hand with special interests. I'm for congressmen not allowed to take positions in industries that they are responsible for oversight during their time in office.

Your default that the private billionaire cares about the everyday person of the health of the nation (which is the single most important thing) is clouding your judgement on what the best path forward is.

The billionaire class showed exactly what they thought of America the past twenty years.

[sturg33]

I don't think the billionaire's care about anybody but themselves.

It's why they aren't throwing a fit about this proposed legislation. They know it's the plebs that will suffer... this is yet another attempt to make it impossible for a middle class or poor person to make it in this country on their own

[thethe]

I don't think the billionaire's care about anybody but themselves.

It's why they aren't throwing a fit about this proposed legislation. They know it's the plebs that will suffer... this is yet another attempt to make it impossible for a middle class or poor person to make it in this country on their own

See thats the thing.

The idea would be that this legislation would have a phase out where people less than a certain threshold would not be impacted.

I'm not for unrealized gains being taxed for households less than 5m net worth or lets say 1m income in a year.

I'd then need to understand what coverage those thresholds have and adjust upwards if necessary.

So in a situation where only the the top 1% (or even 1% of the 1%) are impacted then what is your beef with the proposed legislation because saying that this suppresses poor and middle class is confusing.

If anything creating more liquidity in the market would be a good thing for the beginning entrants because market cap would go down for sure but it would also introduce more investors into the market.

[Krgrecw]

See thats the thing.

The idea would be that this legislation would have a phase out where people less than a certain threshold would not be impacted.

I'm not for unrealized gains being taxed for households less than 5m net worth or lets say 1m income in a year.

I'd then need to understand what coverage those thresholds have and adjust upwards if necessary.

So in a situation where only the the top 1% (or even 1% of the 1%) are impacted then what is your beef with the proposed legislation because saying that this suppresses poor and middle class is confusing.

If anything creating more liquidity in the market would be a good thing for the beginning entrants because market cap would go down for sure but it would also introduce more investors into the market.

You’re not seeing the unintended consequences in your scenario

[thethe]

You’re not seeing the unintended consequences in your scenario

Enlighten me - I have a pretty decent understanding of economics/finance.

[sturg33]

See thats the thing.

The idea would be that this legislation would have a phase out where people less than a certain threshold would not be impacted.

I'm not for unrealized gains being taxed for households less than 5m net worth or lets say 1m income in a year.

I'd then need to understand what coverage those thresholds have and adjust upwards if necessary.

So in a situation where only the the top 1% (or even 1% of the 1%) are impacted then what is your beef with the proposed legislation because saying that this suppresses poor and middle class is confusing.

If anything creating more liquidity in the market would be a good thing for the beginning entrants because market cap would go down for sure but it would also introduce more investors into the market.

You're out of your mind on this one.

Let's say my Bitcoin takes me over $5M in net worth... but I never sell it. You're saying I've to come up with over a $m in cash to hand over to the IRS. So I'm forced to sell just to get some cash. Then what if it crashes, as it tends to do? I just paid a bunch of money for gains I do not have

Or, what it goes back up to $5M again... I have another multi million tax bill. But the more likely scenario is the asset crashes because everyone would have to sell a huge chunk just to pay the damn bill.

What if my house appreciates? What if all my cash is in my house? Do I have to sell my house to pay the tax bill? How is that good for me? Or the country?

[Krgrecw]

Because you think it’s going to be limited to a set number/group of people which it won’t be.



How do you tax unrealized gains without allowing for unrealized loses?