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Thread: Economics Thread

  1. #961
    Waiting for Free Agency acesfull86's Avatar
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    https://theweek.com/articles/861240/...2fwtVBLNLzTCOM

    Can we please get a candidate who supports free trade...

  2. #962
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    Quote Originally Posted by sturg33 View Post
    It is complete ignorance to suggest China isn't hurting right now.

    Bit so is America. The massive tax increase imposed on us has put the breaks on growth
    Means to an end. This had to be done.
    Natural Immunity Croc

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    Quote Originally Posted by acesfull86 View Post
    https://theweek.com/articles/861240/...2fwtVBLNLzTCOM

    Can we please get a candidate who supports free trade...
    Or one who supports freedom?

  4. #964
    Expects Yuge Games nsacpi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thethe View Post
    Yourr a smart man. You have read the pork inflation and the nationalization of banks. China has some major issues right now and with some manufacutring leaving they know they have to deal before it gets worse. Xi could be assasinated at any moment.
    Of course we can cause great damage to China's economy. That is not in dispute.

    What I have noted is that we are trying to get China to do something (improve its legal enforcement of intellectual property rights and rule of law generally) that is in China's best interests. If China were to do these things the flow of foreign investment into China would accelerate. So we are trying to get China to do something that good for China. I have no objection to that. I do have objections to using measures that harm American farmers and American businesses and workers to try to push China into doing something that is in its own best interests. It seems to be the opposite of putting America first to me.
    "I am a victim, I will tell you. I am a victim."

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    Quote Originally Posted by nsacpi View Post
    Of course we can cause great damage to China's economy. That is not in dispute.

    What I have noted is that we are trying to get China to do something (improve its legal enforcement of intellectual property rights and rule of law generally) that is in China's best interests. If China were to do these things the flow of foreign investment into China would accelerate. So we are trying to get China to do something that good for China. I have no objection to that. I do have objections to using measures that harm American farmers and American businesses and workers to try to push China into doing something that is in its own best interests. It seems to be the opposite of putting America first to me.
    What is the alternative?

    The goal is to create a democratic state through non military means.
    Natural Immunity Croc

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    Quote Originally Posted by thethe View Post
    What is the alternative?

    The goal is to create a democratic state through non military means.
    The alternative is to not adopt policies that harm American farmers, workers and businesses. It's not complicated.

    China is going to evolve largely according to its own dynamics. We have limited leverage over that. A little realism about that would help. There are things about China I admire. Things I don't like. We shouldn't be wasting resources on trying to get China to adopt policies that are in their own best interests. If they want to adopt sub-optimal policies, that's their business. The American companies that have elected to do business in China are big boys. They went in there with their eyes wide open and after carefully weighing the pros and cons of doing business there.
    Last edited by nsacpi; 09-11-2019 at 10:14 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nsacpi View Post
    The alternative is to not adopt policies that harm American farmers, workers and businesses. It's not complicated.
    You still havent posed an alternative to get China to act

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    Quote Originally Posted by thethe View Post
    You still havent posed an alternative to get China to act
    why should I...I tried to explain in the rest of my post
    "I am a victim, I will tell you. I am a victim."

    "I am your retribution."

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    Quote Originally Posted by nsacpi View Post
    why should I...I tried to explain in the rest of my post
    There is no other way outside of the military. You know this. Chona has no incentive to change.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thethe View Post
    You still havent posed an alternative to get China to act
    Isn't that what elected officials are for?


    Just because you personally don't have a better solution doesn't mean the current plan is a good one. I don't need to be a doctor to know that amputating your whole arm for a staph infection in your finger, probably isn't the best treatment plan, even if I don't personally have a better option to treat it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thethe View Post
    There is no other way outside of the military. You know this. Chona has no incentive to change.
    You are talking about a country that has probably changed more than any other in the past 40 years. China changes according to its own internal dynamics. We should be realistic about how little influence we have over that.
    "I am a victim, I will tell you. I am a victim."

    "I am your retribution."

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    Quote Originally Posted by sturg33 View Post
    Or one who supports freedom?
    What’s free trade or freedom in general ever done for anyone?

    I look forward to another 4 years of being called an enabler by the left or right after not voting for their **** candidate...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carp View Post
    Isn't that what elected officials are for?


    Just because you personally don't have a better solution doesn't mean the current plan is a good one. I don't need to be a doctor to know that amputating your whole arm for a staph infection in your finger, probably isn't the best treatment plan, even if I don't personally have a better option to treat it.
    Unfortunately the other party doesn’t offer an alternative solution so we’ll have to deal with being one-armed

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    btw one of the unintended (as far as I can tell) consequences of the Chosen One's trade wars has been an appreciation of the dollar...which of course works to increase the trade deficit...yes he is a very stable genius
    "I am a victim, I will tell you. I am a victim."

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    Quote Originally Posted by nsacpi View Post
    btw one of the unintended (as far as I can tell) consequences of the Chosen One's trade wars has been an appreciation of the dollar...which of course works to increase the trade deficit...yes he is a very stable genius
    So you think the strong dollar is bad?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sturg33 View Post
    So you think the strong dollar is bad?
    it is a transmission mechanism...I don't think of it in terms of being good or bad

    in this particular case the strong dollar reflects two things:

    1) policy mixes around the world...generally fiscal easing and monetary tightening work to strengthen our currency...you have to look at our policy mix versus the other country's...not many countries have expanded fiscal policy the way we have the past few years

    2) capital inflows and outflows based on perceptions by investors of relative risk...the trade war makes the whole global economy more risky...but as a safe haven a more risky world favors U.S. assets...so flows into those assets makes the dollar stronger

    A by-product of the above is a larger trade deficit.

    I'm largely indifferent about the dollar and size of the trade deficit (up to a certain point).

    But the Chosen One is decidedly not indifferent about the current trade deficit. He sees it as a big problem. But his policies (fiscal expansion, increase in uncertainty due to the trade war) work to strengthen the dollar and increase the deficit.
    Last edited by nsacpi; 09-11-2019 at 12:30 PM.
    "I am a victim, I will tell you. I am a victim."

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    btw the Chosen One isn't sure about a strong dollar...in the first days of his administration he called Michael Flynn in the wee hours one night (woke him up as a matter of fact) and asked him if a strong dollar was a good thing...Flynn suggested he consult with an economist
    "I am a victim, I will tell you. I am a victim."

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    Quote Originally Posted by nsacpi View Post
    The alternative is to not adopt policies that harm American farmers, workers and businesses. It's not complicated.

    China is going to evolve largely according to its own dynamics. We have limited leverage over that. A little realism about that would help. There are things about China I admire. Things I don't like. We shouldn't be wasting resources on trying to get China to adopt policies that are in their own best interests. If they want to adopt sub-optimal policies, that's their business. The American companies that have elected to do business in China are big boys. They went in there with their eyes wide open and after carefully weighing the pros and cons of doing business there.
    And even if this weren’t true, Trump has shown no aptitude that would lead you to believe he has a grand plan that will make us all better off in the end.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nsacpi View Post
    btw the Chosen One isn't sure about a strong dollar...in the first days of his administration he called Michael Flynn in the wee hours one night (woke him up as a matter of fact) and asked him if a strong dollar was a good thing...Flynn suggested he consult with an economist
    Said 2 anonymous sources supposedly familiar with Flynn's accounts of the incident per Huffington Post. But at this late stage in the information war, who cares where it came from. Just propogate it as absolute fact. Orange man definitely bad. So why not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrShwag View Post
    Orange man definitely bad.
    Board style guide recommends the Chosen One.
    "I am a victim, I will tell you. I am a victim."

    "I am your retribution."

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