I'd trade Heyward.................for Trout.Originally Posted by chopdrew
I'd trade Heyward.................for Trout.
Stockholm, more densely populated than NYC - sturg
37 games out of 530+. I love Heyward, but a hot second half cut short by injury should not decide whether a player is untouchable or not.
It would be like me saying, "Anyone who would not trade Heyward after his 1st half is a moron."
I still think there are too many variable for a Uggla/Phillips trade to happen. The money on both contracts is the biggest thing. Also, if the Braves have to give up a top prospect, who would qualify for that? Who would the Reds consider? Gilmartin? Salcedo? Bethancourt? Wood? Hale? I think the Braves need to do whatever it takes to trade Dan Uggla. But, I just can't see a deal for Brandon Phillips being a serious possibility for Atlanta.
Chopping With The Braves And Rolling With The Tide
YES PLEASE.
haha
I would not want to trade any of Wood, Sims, Peraza, Cabrera and Bethancourt as part of an Uggla for Phillips deal. If the Reds are open to a deal that does not include one of those five, I'd try to work something out.
Tell em why. I tried all day yesterday.
No way I deliver a gift-wrapped prospect tothe Reds for this deal,. I take his contract and like it, knowing we have another hometown guy and arguably the best second baseman in baseball. McCoy's arguments must be taken witha grain of salt; he now cincy's equivalent of Furman Bisher. (i.e. grumphy, grouchy yet knowing more about the team than guys who travel.) He has had multiple strokes and is legally blind and requires a driver to each home gme.
But that said, I loe Hal. He befriended a lost and out-of-hisleague rookie writer back in the 80s and even tried to get me into the BBWAA. I will only disagree with him respectfully.
For me it is about having an appreciation of how valuable young cost controlled players are. If you are a mid-payroll or lower team, you should not be making trades that involve giving up your best prospects for older players. Now if the Reds had a young cost controlled second baseman, I'd be very interested and would be willing to give up one of our top prospects. But that's not the case.
But that is exactly what Tommy La Stella is, a young, cost controlled, inexpensive on base machine. Trade Uggla for whatever salary relief we can get and move on. Don't compound the problem by taking on an additional $24MM over two more years. Not to mention Phillips is apparently a poor clubhouse guy to boot. I really hope this is just some idle speculation and the Braves don't have any real interest in him at all.
Last edited by skillet; 10-21-2013 at 08:43 AM.
Yes. Having La Stella as a possibility is an important thing to keep in mind. We also have Pena and Pastornicky. Our internal options are not bad.
My point though was that if the Reds had young second baseman who projects better than La Stella, Pena and Pastornicky, I'd be interested and willing to consider giving up one of our top prospects.
But if the Reds have that young, cost controlled player who projects as a ML 2nd baseman then they wont take/dont need Uggla. And to those who want to simply release or eat tons of Uggla's money and then use one of your above projections (take La Stella for example) that young player then becomes a 10-13.5M gamble. That player becomes more expensive than one of the Cuban expats.
Too bad we can't go back to the old days. At least then the hot stove league didn't heat up until after the World Series.
The La Stella hysteria is reaching epic proportions with a few on this board. Hardly anybody was even aware of him, a few week ago, now his being annointed for stardom. He'll get a look in ST, but he'll probably start the year at Gwinnett. Plus, as OP mentioned, there are internal options with Pena & Pastornicky.
Meantime, Wren is being pragmatic. He's going to let the situation simmer down, then reach out to Uggla. Let them determine the state of the man's vision, need for recovery/adjustment period and plan for work with the hitting coaches. It's still possible that this is the cause.
Like any team, a lot of Braves fans need to find a lightning rod to blame its frustrations. We all know that the season was a disaster for him, as it was for BJ. If it makes you feel better to rant on message boards, Twitter and DOB's comments section, have at it. Just be realistic when addressing the issue of $25 or $50 million in salary. After going through it with Lowe, something tells me that Wren doesn't want to have to eat salary, just to appease the fan base, without considering all courses of action first.
That's right they don't have a young cost-controlled second baseman. My point being that under those circumstances I wouldn't be interested in a trade with them that involved parting with one of Wood, Sims, Peraza, Cabrera or Bethancourt.
I think the Rangers come closest to having a young cost-controlled second baseman I would give up a top prospect for. They have two, Profar and Rougned Odor. Ironically, Profar is probably too highly regarded for us to acquire without breaking the bank. But Odor is someone I'd be very interested in, more so than Brandon Phillips.
Last edited by nsacpi; 10-21-2013 at 09:25 AM.
Hey some of us have liked La Stella for much longer than just the past week or past season
That said, I liked Tommy as a value player. I think he'll be that. One thing I've learned in the last decade is not every quality major leaguer is a top prospect. When you see guys who only do 2 things or even 1 thing but do it extremely well there's value to that. We've now had 3 of those guys in recent years who've been key to our success recently. In the past it was Bourn and Prado, Bourn was a speed and defense guy who made acceptable contact. Prado a good contact guy with acceptable power. And Chris Johnson a line drive extraordinaire.
For me Tommy piqued my interest in 11 buy I rarely get excited for guys in one season, in 12 is when I really started following him. I think anytime you have a minor league player who walks more than he Ks he's worth getting a little excited for. He's shown to me that there's a very real chance he could be like Pedroia with the bat. Obviously not close to as valuable of a player as Pedroia cause aside from hitting very well, Dustin is a good baserunner and great defender. I think that's the type of guture we may have in Tommy, of course he may never hit it but if we can have a roughly 3 WAR or so 2B for cheap why not take it? Before this year, Uggla's worst season was a 2.2 fWAR, I don't think Tommy is as bad defensively as Uggla was for us in 2011 and I don't think a 111 wRC+ is out of the question for him.
In the end this is how I look at it, in 2013 Braves 2B combined for a 0.6 fWAR, we had the 3rd highest team fWAR in the NL. Where we struggled was quite obvious, CF and 2B. Now we made up for CF with outstanding catchers, Freddie, Justin, CJ, and Jason, but honestly how much much worse if at all can Tommy be than our 2B last year? He had Dan no hit no field Uggla and Elliot No Hit OK Field Johnson. How can Tommy be much worse than them?
Odds are we can't trade Uggla for much we'll largely be in the same boat we were in with Lowe. For me what will likely happen is Fredi makes 2B open competition between Uggla, Tommy, and Tyler.
Stockholm, more densely populated than NYC - sturg
Knucksie (10-21-2013)
I believe the Indians paid $5M of Lowe's contract. We were lucky to find a team willing to do that.
If someone offered a similar deal with Uggla (5M/year for the remaining two years) I'd say deal. But I don't think we'll be as lucky as we were with the Indians and Lowe.
Without a deal of that sort, I'd hold on to Uggla and make it an open competition in spring training for him and our other internal options. My guess is that Pena will end up playing more games at second for us in 2014 than anyone else. Fredi loves Pena. He's a very good defender (yeah his metrics at second are not great but given the small sample size I'm going to go with what my eyes tell me there) and just needs to hit decently.
Last edited by nsacpi; 10-21-2013 at 10:11 AM.
No one will take Uggla for 2 years most likely but odds are someone will take Uggla after this year as a 1 year gamble.
Stockholm, more densely populated than NYC - sturg
Yeah, the fact he has two years left reduces the chances we'll find a taker along the lines of the Indians with Lowe.
I like the Brandon Phillips idea. Nobody is gonna take Uggla, unless the Yanks lose Cano and get desperate. Wren also won't let Uggla be a 13k a year bench piece either. Phillips is a good player that may just want out of Cincy. And he'd be comin home to so a change of scenery may do wonders or him. So again, Uggla won't be traded unless it's for a team wanting to get rid of another contract or us eating the whole contract which they won't do.
I had a 20 pack of tickets this year.
Every game, Uggla's first at bat...Gimme a beer.
Second at bat, I gotta pee, get me a beer while Im gone.
Third at bat, I dont care.
And I dont even drink.
So if Wren wants to dump Uggla Ill kick in my beer money. lets see, 20 games, 3 beers a game, $9 bucks a game. Whats that $540????
Hey thats cheaper than watching that bum try to hit.
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