McGuirk: Coppella Exit Like Cutting ‘Cancer’ To Move Ahead

[nsacpi]

But we're those signing on autopilot or did Wren actually have something to do with it.

Did he know who they were before they were signed? He may have but to assume one way or another to have a 'gotcha ' comment is silly.

It seems to me that in evaluating how a GM did in terms of "bringing in talent" you need to look at all the results and also all the inputs (spending, draft positions).

[thethe]

What's silly is you and others bashed Wren for leaving our farm in shambles and yet give him no credit when two prospects under his watch are likely going to be our best position players going forward.

He did leave our farm system in shambles. Because our existing Latin American scouting department hit the jackpot twice doesn't change that. Prove to me that wren installed that international team.

[thethe]

It seems to me that in evaluating how a GM did in terms of "bringing in talent" you need to look at all the results and also all the inputs (spending, draft positions).

I agree and part of that evaluation is what talent was brought in by his tree.

[thewupk]

He did leave our farm system in shambles. Because our existing Latin American scouting department hit the jackpot twice doesn't change that. Prove to me that wren installed that international team.

I don't have to. You are the one making the assumption that the man in charge had nothing to do with Albies or Acuna. The burden of proof is on you.

[thethe]

I don't have to. You are the one making the assumption that the man in charge had nothing to do with Albies or Acuna. The burden of proof is on you.

No the comment was made thankfully wren brought those guys in. Therefore, the original statement was made on your side.

[Evad]

And when I made my comments about Wren leaving our farm system in shambles, I did forget about Albies and Acuna.. But, our system was still a wasteland.

And even with our current stocked farm system, those players could turn into nothings. But, we have the rankings in our favor for when we do some trades in the future.

[thewupk]

No the comment was made thankfully wren brought those guys in. Therefore, the original statement was made on your side.

Because it's common sense that the man in charge gets credit for what happens under him.

[nsacpi]

I agree and part of that evaluation is what talent was brought in by his tree.

And Acuna and Albies have to weigh heavily in any such evaluation.

[thethe]

Because it's common sense that the man in charge gets credit for what happens under him.

That's too simplistic. There are legacy systems that run without any involvement of those in charge. But as opposed to naming a new assistant gm or a farm director that is part of the new gms tree.

It's very likely that Albies and Acuna are signed even if wren was never gm since those Latin American departments wrnever changed.

[Super]

imagine where the rebuild would be if we only had just albies and acuna.

[Southcack77]

After Wren was fired there was an overhaul of our international scouting team. It seems to me Wren was evaluated and fired partly on the grounds he and his team were not bringing in enough talent. It seems reasonable to bring up Albies and Acuna in any retrospective discussion.

Ok go on.

[thewupk]

That's too simplistic. There are legacy systems that run without any involvement of those in charge. But as opposed to naming a new assistant gm or a farm director that is part of the new gms tree.

It's very likely that Albies and Acuna are signed even if wren was never gm since those Latin American departments wrnever changed.

What's too simplistic is writing off anything that happened internationally under the man in charge because it doesn't agree with your narrative.

[thethe]

What's too simplistic is writing off anything that happened internationally under the man in charge because it doesn't agree with your narrative.

No I'm asking for more details. You show me the involvement and I'll admit he deserves credit.

[nsacpi]

imagine where the rebuild would be if we only had just albies and acuna.

does Dave Stewart exist in this alternative universe

[Super]

What's too simplistic is writing off anything that happened internationally under the man in charge because it doesn't agree with your narrative.

I think, more realistically, wren's international scouting dept. just happened to hit the $5,000 square on two $2 lottery tickets. his admin gets credit for it, but i'd still consider it more of a luck thing than wren's team and him (especially) having a great eye for talent.

i'd more inclined to criticize coppy for the international thing than give big kudos to wren for albies and acuna. i prefer the strategy of giving a little bit of $ to as many guys as possible due to how young these kids are and how impossible it is to see how their bodies/attitudes will develop.

[Super]

does Dave Stewart exist in this alternative universe

sure, and so do recent draft picks.
i also think stewart existed in wren's universe too tho. i guess he got far more dumb between wren and coppy. one was able to take advantage and the other wasn't.

[thewupk]

No I'm asking for more details. You show me the involvement and I'll admit he deserves credit.

He oversees the entire organization.

[Southcack77]

I can understand sympathy for Wren’s situation but I can’t really understand support for the results.

At the end of the day he had a maxed out team that missed the playoffs, without adequate pitching, without any prospects other than peraza within five years of the majors, and huge commitments to objectively bad players.

You can argue that he got there through rational decisions made to accomplish his marching orders but the end result was the same.

To point that out doesn’t require celebrating Coppy, who ultimately ended up simply being a liquidator.

[thewupk]

sure, and so do recent draft picks.
i also think stewart existed in wren's universe too tho. i guess he got far more dumb between wren and coppy. one was able to take advantage and the other wasn't.

Oh I think Wren took advantage in the Justin Upton trade

[Super]

Oh I think Wren took advantage in the Justin Upton trade

don't think stewart was there at the time.
but either way, Prado and Upton weren't super far apart for years after that trade. plus it brought us the disaster that was chris johnson and the subsequent contract extension.