GDT: 4/28/2018 Braves @ Phillies

[thewupk]

Simple, rather than being concerned or critical of player performance based on some number. I would just enjoy the performance. If a guy hits .260 with 30 bombs and drives in 90 and catches everything they are supposed to he's a good player period. Strikeouts do matter no matter what anybody says. Basically, it is just the insistence that old dinosaurs like me that watch the games with our eyes and not a slide rule don't know what we are talking about.

That's fine. You can just be a fan and enjoy what you see. I do this with the football. I'm not a super nerd about my team like I am the Braves and I just watch on Sunday, hope they win, and enjoy it when they do. But I don't get upset and talk **** if someone shows they are playing over their head.

And saying a guy that hits .260 with 30 bombs and drives in 90 and catches everything they are supposed to he's a good player period is your opinion and doesn't make it fact. In most cases you are usually right but Francoeur's 2006 season is a perfect example of that player who was god awful as a hitter. You can think that type of season from someone is good but the people that actually run teams don't and that's what matters no matter what anybody says.

Just because you are critical of a team/player doesn't mean you aren't a fan. That's dumb.

[VirginiaBrave]

That's the fun of baseball.

[VirginiaBrave]

[QUOTE=thewupk;486544]That's fine. You can just be a fan and enjoy what you see. I do this with the football. I'm not a super nerd about my team like I am the Braves and I just watch on Sunday, hope they win, and enjoy it when they do. But I don't get upset and talk **** if someone shows they are playing over their head.

And saying a guy that hits .260 with 30 bombs and drives in 90 and catches everything they are supposed to he's a good player period is your opinion and doesn't make it fact. In most cases you are usually right but Francoeur's 2006 season is a perfect example of that player who was god awful as a hitter. You can think that type of season from someone is good but the people that actually run teams don't and that's what matters no matter what anybody says.

Jeff still had a good year in 2006. Don't overthink it.

[thewupk]

That's fine. You can just be a fan and enjoy what you see. I do this with the football. I'm not a super nerd about my team like I am the Braves and I just watch on Sunday, hope they win, and enjoy it when they do. But I don't get upset and talk **** if someone shows they are playing over their head.

And saying a guy that hits .260 with 30 bombs and drives in 90 and catches everything they are supposed to he's a good player period is your opinion and doesn't make it fact. In most cases you are usually right but Francoeur's 2006 season is a perfect example of that player who was god awful as a hitter. You can think that type of season from someone is good but the people that actually run teams don't and that's what matters no matter what anybody says.

Jeff still had a good year in 2006. Don't overthink it.

I haven't. A 742 OPS in 2006 was not good.

Everyone that thinks that way no longer works in a baseball front office.

[zitothebrave]

Jeff still had a good year in 2006. Don't overthink it.

Depends on what your definition of a good year is. If it's only a little above average, than you're wrong. Francoeur had a lot of issues as a hitter. Patience was the biggest. But couple that with an issue of not making contact with Authority.

Now had he walking 2006 like he did in 2007, then he would have probably been a fine player. If we take 20 outs from weak contact and replaced them with walks, his OBP would rise to .332 which isn't groundbreaking, but it's acceptable when coupled with his good but not great power. Reality is that he would cap out as a not amazing player. His peak year was basically his 2011 year with KC. and a 115 wRC+ isn't super bad. But it's not that amazing especially considering he was hot garbage without Andruwdefensively.

[VirginiaBrave]

I haven't. A 742 OPS in 2006 was not good.

Everyone that thinks that way no longer works in a baseball front office.

I don't, won't, and would not want too.

[thewupk]

I don't, won't, and would not want too.

That's good. Because they have to make decisions off of what we discuss here in regards to analytics. You can be a fan and not care about them just as you can be a fan and have an interest in them.

[VirginiaBrave]

That's good. Because they have to make decisions off of what we discuss here in regards to analytics. You can be a fan and not care about them just as you can be a fan and have an interest in them.

But there is no need to tell someone that don't have interest in them to just shut up or worse. Analytics doesn't take in intangibles either which is a shortcoming.

[GovClintonTyree]

So, just shut up and watch the games and don’t try to analyze what’s going on. Awesome stance.

I just want to point out, that's Virginia Brave's stance. Pretty sure a lot of folks aren't necessarily as old school as he is but are angry with Enscheff despite being somewhat more inclined on the saber spectrum. I'm one of them.

[thewupk]

But there is no need to tell someone that don't have interest in them to just shut up or worse. Analytics doesn't take in intangibles either which is a shortcoming.

Just as there is no need to tell someone to just enjoy the game.

[nsacpi]

Just as there is no need to tell someone to just enjoy the game.

Or not to overthink it.

[Hawk]

Very apropos that this thread turn into an irrelevant, wrong-headed analyticist v. classicist pissing match.

[jpx7]

In my field, the classicists are the analyticists, fwiw. Luckily for me we’re entering a neo-classical moment.

[JCarbo76]

Depends on what your definition of a good year is. If it's only a little above average, than you're wrong. Francoeur had a lot of issues as a hitter. Patience was the biggest. But couple that with an issue of not making contact with Authority.

Now had he walking 2006 like he did in 2007, then he would have probably been a fine player. If we take 20 outs from weak contact and replaced them with walks, his OBP would rise to .332 which isn't groundbreaking, but it's acceptable when coupled with his good but not great power. Reality is that he would cap out as a not amazing player. His peak year was basically his 2011 year with KC. and a 115 wRC+ isn't super bad. But it's not that amazing especially considering he was hot garbage without Andruwdefensively.

Just how bad was Francouer as a baseball player? 101 players in baseball history, who played at least half of their games in RF, had at least 5000 plate appearances. Jeff ranks 99th in WAR with 6.7. As a good, very familiar RF comparison, Brian Jordan had an almost equal number (5646 to 5661) of plate appearances, but had a career WAR of 32.9.

[msstate7]

That's good. Because they have to make decisions off of what we discuss here in regards to analytics. You can be a fan and not care about them just as you can be a fan and have an interest in them.

Which analytics are telling AA that Bautista is the best option for 3b?

[nsacpi]

Just how bad was Francouer as a baseball player? 101 players in baseball history, who played at least half of their games in RF, had at least 5000 plate appearances. Jeff ranks 99th in WAR with 6.7. As a good, very familiar RF comparison, Brian Jordan had an almost equal number (5646 to 5661) of plate appearances, but had a career WAR of 32.9.

dont overthink it

[GeorgiaGirl]

yeah the stuff about Frenchy is an easy one, unless you're completely casual. His 2006 season wasn't a good one and you can argue that him playing every single game helped inflate his season. In 2007 he was better, then he completely cratered outside of 2011.

Now if you're casual then suit yourself but I've seen even further casual then watching for enjoyment.

[UNCBlue012]

How did this become a Frenchy thread? What the heck is wrong with this forum? lol

[thewupk]

Which analytics are telling AA that Bautista is the best option for 3b?

FAR - friendship above replacement

[msstate7]

FAR - friendship above replacement

Haha.