don't beOriginally Posted by chipchildress
don't be
I'm excluding our recent draftees from the discussion
First, I'm not trading for anyone who doesn't fit 1 of 2 criteria:
1. Is controllable for 3+ years
2. Is really cheap (specifically for rentals)
The guys who I wouldn't trade under reasonable circumstances would be Soroka, Touki, Wright, Gohara, Acuna, Pache, and Riley. Those seven I would keep in almost every circumstance, at least this year. Next year could be a different story.
The guys I would be willing to deal under the right circumstance would be Allard, Anderson, Fried, Wentz, Wilson, Waters, Contreras (reluctantly), Muller, Cumberland (I guess lol), and a few other guys in the lower levels who might have a smidge of value. I feel like you could put a solid trade together with this list if you absolutely had to or some crazy opportunity dropped at our feet.
I agree with that 100%. Wentz is a nice pitching prospect who has had better results most of the time than Touki, but anyone who has seen Touki pitch knows that he has the stuff to be a nightmare for other teams. We also forget that he is still very young for his level and has improved every year since we have had him.
jpx7 (06-11-2018)
i could easily see touki being sent out in a trade. just for the reason you mentioned above.
realistically, what do you really expect to get for sims, wisler, fried, etc? touki is exactly the sexy hype guy that still carries around a great ranking without consistent results.
these are the guys i totally want trade. maybe he'll be great, maybe not, but at least he's valuable. move him on and keep guys who are performing consistently all the way up like soroka has.
i mean, don't trade him for scraps, but if you're making a package for a real big leaguer, i'm starting there. if i can trade guys that still have tons of questions for great value this deep into his minor league career, it's something i'd have to consider.
the other thing about touki is he could be 28 before he finally gets it. does that timeline fit where the braves hope to be in the next few years?
For most pitchers....no. For a guy with Touki’s ceiling....yes. You hold on to a guy like that until the bitter end. Worth the gamble.
jpx7 (06-11-2018)
Dude Touki is a 21 year old in AA that has a 3.36 ERA and is striking out over 11 hitters per 9. I don't know where you are getting the idea that it will be 7 more years before we know if Touki makes it or not, but I would bet my left testiclite that he will have busted or be on an MLB roster within 3 years.
jpx7 (06-11-2018)
I think realistically if we offered Fried and Wisler, we would be able to get a rental like Moose or Beltre. I would not include Touki in that kind of trade.
"I am a victim, I will tell you. I am a victim."
"I am your retribution."
Another thing with Touki is that he has a true fall back option as a reliever. He could be absolutely dominant in that role and he could get to the MLB much quicker if we decided to take that route. But his ceiling is so high as a starter we have decided to be patient with him (as patient as you can be for a 21 year old in AA).
jpx7 (06-11-2018)
Oh yeah...and Touki can hit also. He’s just special. I think he makes it as a reliever no matter what. Stuff is just too good.
My “untouchable list” Acuna and Soroka.
Unlikely to trade mainly due to not extracting value from stock being down: Wright and Gohara.
Unlikely to trade due to age and rising potential/status and not maximizing value: Waters and Stewart.
The funny thing is at 21 in AA...he has pitched good. Not lights out, but definitely not bad.
To hear people talk about him...you would think he has a 6 + ERA and is getting tourched but has “potential”. He could be called to the big leafs right now and probably do decent.
He has done well enough to be moved to AAA this year or definitely by next year. That puts him making the big leagues by age 23, which is completely a normal schedule for a prospect.
jpx7 (06-11-2018)
i absolutely wouldn't give away touki for scraps or rentals, especially when a rental isn't going to be enough. moves like that have quietly crushed the braves for years. rick ankiel should have only been allowed to become a brave if the cardinals paid the braves to take him. instead the braves just casually tossed away tim collins and gregor blanco like it was nothing to get him. it feels like we suffered through a bunch of those over the years. i'm only advocating trading pieces like touki for real prizes.
Sure, if it was a real prize you are also giving away probably two other of your top ten. That puts Touki as a sweetener....which means it better be someone like Sale.
Touki has prospect fatigue. That's really all there is to it. He's 8 months younger than Wright. If Touki went to college, we drafted him last year, and he went on to do what he's doing now everyone would be all over him as an untouchable.
lucas sims is on the braves roster. you've said nothing particularly noteworthy here.
anyway, the hype on a prospect barely cracking top 100 lists proves my point that trading him could be a valuable move.
well not really. is anybody claiming wright should be untouchable? ok then.
I don’t think I would put Sims and Touki in the same boat lol. Sims needs to be moved yesterday.
i'm not sure why when suggesting that touki be available for trade folks assume i'm suggest he be traded for Alex ****ing Jackson or Rick Ankiel or some nonsense like that.
I am suggesting that Touki could really demand a nice return and given his inconsistent nature as a pitcher over his young career, it's not nuts to think it could take time for him to put it all together.
Meanwhile the Braves are entering a window to compete that should be there for how long? Who knows, but if Touki can help land you RAndy Johnson next year as you push to win the World Series, then yeah.
It's not "prospect fatigue". lol
Wright is different in the fact he holds more value than Touki. I would move him for the right peice because of his high status. There is value in that.
Touki doesn’t hold the same value, so you would not have the same purchasing power in a trade. It would end up being a bargain for someone most likely.
Does that make sense?
If he puts it together, then he is untouchable, if he doesn’t then he is undervalued.
Wright probably isn’t moved at this point because he has underperformed which hurts his value a little also. Either way he is ranked much higher and would get a better return. Even though Touki has performed better.
So the fact Touki is untouchable comes from the fact that you will never get the value he is worth in a trade. So....he isn’t a guy you move.
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