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Thread: Nationals Snatch Herrara Away from Royals (and Braves?)

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    Director of Minor League Reports rico43's Avatar
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    Nationals Snatch Herrara Away from Royals (and Braves?)

    Washington beat the Braves (and everyone else) to the punch Monday when they grabbed Kelvin Herrera away from the Royals for three minor leaguers.

    It has been pretty much a consensus that Herrera was the best bullpen arm available, as he has merely has walked only two in 22 innings while amassing 14 saves and a 1.05 ERA. He had 26 saves last year and appeared in over 70 games in each year from 2014-2016. He was a two-tine AL all-star.

    The Nationals traded Kelvin Gutierrez, who was a Class AA infielder at age 23; Blake Perkins., a switch-hitting outfielder who was hitting .234 in the Carolina League; and RHP Yohanse Morel, who is only 17 and pitching in the DSL. None was considered to be a top 30 prospect.

    This is the first incident where I feel AA fiddled while Rome made a deal on a player who would have locked down the Braves bullpen. This is an ouchie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rico43 View Post
    Washington beat the Braves (and everyone else) to the punch Monday when they grabbed Kelvin Herrera away from the Royals for three minor leaguers.

    It has been pretty much a consensus that Herrera was the best bullpen arm available, as he has merely has walked only two in 22 innings while amassing 14 saves and a 1.05 ERA. He had 26 saves last year and appeared in over 70 games in each year from 2014-2016. He was a two-tine AL all-star.

    The Nationals traded Kelvin Gutierrez, who was a Class AA infielder at age 23; Blake Perkins., a switch-hitting outfielder who was hitting .234 in the Carolina League; and RHP Yohanse Morel, who is only 17 and pitching in the DSL. None was considered to be a top 30 prospect.

    This is the first incident where I feel AA fiddled while Rome made a deal on a player who would have locked down the Braves bullpen. This is an ouchie.
    The Nationals gave up two prospects ranked between 10 and 15 plus a highly thought of Dominican guy. Not a whole lot, but certainly gave up something.

    Our system is deeper, but itís be like losing a Wilson / Wentz / Muller and Contreras.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IslandBrave View Post
    The Nationals gave up two prospects ranked between 10 and 15 plus a highly thought of Dominican guy. Not a whole lot, but certainly gave up something.

    Our system is deeper, but itís be like losing a Wilson / Wentz / Muller and Contreras.
    Thatís not even close to the equivalent package from the Braves.

    More like TD, DPete and a random J2 arm from last yearís class.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    Thatís not even close to the equivalent package from the Braves.
    Ok.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IslandBrave View Post
    Ok.
    Youíre not even in the realm of being correct. The Nats gave up a couple FV 40s in their early 20s. All the guys you listed for the Braves hold more value.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    Youíre not even in the realm of being correct. The Nats gave up a couple FV 40s in their early 20s. All the guys you listed for the Braves hold more value.
    I said ok. Youíre the all knowing. We bow down to your excellence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IslandBrave View Post
    I said ok. You’re the all knowing. We bow down to your excellence.
    Scheff is right here, he can be a butthole but the Nats didnt give up much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IslandBrave View Post
    The Nationals gave up two prospects ranked between 10 and 15 plus a highly thought of Dominican guy. Not a whole lot, but certainly gave up something.

    Our system is deeper, but it’s be like losing a Wilson / Wentz / Muller and Contreras.
    The Nationals gave up three guys that didn't even make their pipeline top 30. Pipeline is a crap website, but still if you are a prospect of note, you will usually appear in a team's top 30 unless it is an incredibly deep system. The Nats are not incredibly deep. Wilson/Wentz/Muller/Contreras would have all likely made the Nats top 15. Its not even close.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IslandBrave View Post
    The Nationals gave up two prospects ranked between 10 and 15 plus a highly thought of Dominican guy. Not a whole lot, but certainly gave up something.

    Our system is deeper, but itís be like losing a Wilson / Wentz / Muller and Contreras.
    I wouldnít trade one of those guys for all three of those gNats prospects. Our 10 - 20 is not like the gNats.
    Coppy

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    With that being said, what would a good comp for this return be? Something like Leudys Baez, Dilmer Mejia, and Derian Cruz? I don't really know. I know nothing about these Nats prospects outside of the fact that they aren't really that great.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rico43 View Post
    Washington beat the Braves (and everyone else) to the punch Monday when they grabbed Kelvin Herrera away from the Royals for three minor leaguers.

    It has been pretty much a consensus that Herrera was the best bullpen arm available, as he has merely has walked only two in 22 innings while amassing 14 saves and a 1.05 ERA. He had 26 saves last year and appeared in over 70 games in each year from 2014-2016. He was a two-tine AL all-star.

    The Nationals traded Kelvin Gutierrez, who was a Class AA infielder at age 23; Blake Perkins., a switch-hitting outfielder who was hitting .234 in the Carolina League; and RHP Yohanse Morel, who is only 17 and pitching in the DSL. None was considered to be a top 30 prospect.

    This is the first incident where I feel AA fiddled while Rome made a deal on a player who would have locked down the Braves bullpen. This is an ouchie.
    Dude that's expensive for a rental bullpen arm.

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    I was thinking like Ynoa, D-Pete, Ruiz would be an equivalent package.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BeanieAntics View Post
    With that being said, what would a good comp for this return be? Something like Leudys Baez, Dilmer Mejia, and Derian Cruz? I don't really know. I know nothing about these Nats prospects outside of the fact that they aren't really that great.
    Leudys Baez was released in March.

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    We definitely screwed the pooch on this one. We could have easily given more value and it not hurt us whatsoever.
    "Can a man still be brave if he is afraid? That is the only time a man can be brave." - G.R.R.M (Game of Thrones)

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    Yeah you can't compare at all based directly off where a prospect is ranked. 10-15 for the Nats now is more like 25-30 or lower for the Braves. I feel like this deal not being made has a lot more to do with money, which the Braves should have more but unfortunately not until near the deadline.
    Aggression with prospects is fine, but being stupid is not. There should be a way to find a happy medium between a Pirates like idea of being overly cautious with prospects and going stupidly fast with prospects.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    Thatís not even close to the equivalent package from the Braves.

    More like TD, DPete and a random J2 arm from last yearís class.
    who knows with GMs these days.

    Jeter wanted your number 1 guy in any trade. Didn't matter if the number 1 guy for one team would be number 5 for another.

    Moore isn't going off of FV.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Russ2dollas View Post
    who knows with GMs these days.

    Jeter wanted your number 1 guy in any trade. Didn't matter if the number 1 guy for one team would be number 5 for another.

    Moore isn't going off of FV.
    Yeah that's pretty obvious. Royals were identified as a team to be taken advantage of and I believe they were. Just sucks it wasn't the Braves but the Nats that did it. I believe money was a big factor in any interest the Braves had. Could be the Braves only have room for one significant addition and are waiting on that.

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    wow I can't believe we didn't top that. Herrera is exactly what our pen needed. Never even heard of those Nats prospects. I am also still mad we didn't beat the Nats for Madsen and Doolittle.
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    i strongly prefer a lefty for the pen, anyway. i would've taken KH. but ideally give me a lefty.
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    Figuring in all the deal money:

    Baseball reference has the Braves payroll at 117-118m.
    Sportrac at 122m
    COT at 118


    If we call it 118, then they are maybe 5 million under what they started at in 2017. They ultimately got about 4 million extra, I think to get Matt Adams. Given the way they sluffed money off at the end of last season and then started with a lower payroll this season, I'm guessing that was not viewed as sustainable under their budgeting.

    The bump in attendance this year might let them extent back to that range. So maybe the Braves have about 10 million at the top end to play with.

    Herrera's contract was 8 million. We're about a little more than a third through the season. EDIT - Rosenthal reports he is owed 4.4 million and the Nats will take on all that cost.

    That one trade may well have been the whole Braves remaining budget and it might have been a case where the Royals were simply looking to slash payroll.
    Last edited by Southcack77; 06-19-2018 at 09:37 AM.

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