Can we/should we allow Hamels to get away?

[zitothebrave]

Good drive his value down til the Rangers will give him away for anything. MUAHAHAHA

[Super]

Zach Wheeler may be available and shouldn't cost as much as most of the other controllable younger arms out there.

why would we want him tho? he's not any more of a sure thing than some of our current young guys. and he likely won't come cheaply enough to make it worth it.

[zitothebrave]

why would we want him tho? he's not any more of a sure thing than some of our current young guys. and he likely won't come cheaply enough to make it worth it.

I don't really want Wheeler at all. Injury issues and the fact that it's the Mets so I really don't want to see the player we traded them biting us in the ass in 3 or 4 years.

[clvclv]

Exactly. We have a group of non-elite prospects (Encarnacion, Javier, Ynao, de la Cruz, Rangel, Mueller, Wisler, Sims, Ruiz, Webb) that have enough value to allow us to pursue two or three upgrades at this year's trade deadline. Modest upgrades. We are not going after an ace to head up the rotation.

But there is no excuse to be playing meaningful games in September and October without a good solid situational lefty to get a key out in the 6th or 7th inning or a versatile player like Solarte or Asdrubal Cabrera to fill in if one of our regulars is injured or slumping. And if Viz doesn't come back we should get a high leverage guy for the pen.

There is also the psychological angle. I thing it gives the guys who have been battling all year a boost to get a couple key reinforcements at the deadline.

Think back to the trade we made with the Mets a couple years ago when we were sellers. Uribe and Kelly Johnson for Gant and Whalen. We should be making the reverse of that kind of trade, perhaps even with the Mets.

The problem here is that if the players we already have for those roles aren't good enough, using any prospects to plug those kinds of holes seems more than a bit counterproductive. If you limit the list to Rangel, Wisler, Sims, Ruiz, and Webb that's fine.

We're a year ahead of schedule - let's not forget that. If AA's not going out to get a big-time upgrade, I'd prefer he lets things play out and simply see how far the "chemistry" gets them in 2018. Gohara, Fried, or Allard can be that situational lefty IF you're playing meaningful games in two months. They could also be rotation candidates if you're not going to go after a TOR guy to make a run.

If your focus is improving the bench or middle relief at this point, do it by acquiring someone that won't cost premium prospects but that is good enough to force a starter to the bench or everybody an inning earlier in the pen. If you want Camargo or Culberson to get less ABs (and to be utility guys) go get Moose or Lowrie or leave them alone. Asdrubal Cabrera will be awful defensively, so other than adding a little more pop he's not going to be an upgrade. If you want to improve the pen (and situational lefty), go get a controllable Closer (Hand/Iglesias/Treinen) that will slot everybody down. Then you have Viz as an 8th inning guy and Minter and Carle as your 7th inning guy. That would turn Freeman into a strictly situational lefty.

If AA decides he's just not quite ready to go for it, don't waste talent on marginal upgrades - find out if the pieces we have can be those roleplayers when you add this winter.

[nsacpi]

If you limit the list to Rangel, Wisler, Sims, Ruiz, and Webb that's fine.

How about Odalvi Javier. Can I add him to the list or is he a keeper.

[nsacpi]

That would turn Freeman into a strictly situational lefty.

Freeman has reverse splits.

Career FIP against lefties 4.39

Career FIP against righties 3.59

[Southcack77]

I think Wheeler has some value but seems like an unlikely target for the Braves.

Maybe there is a deal that moves prospects for Wheeler, Asdrubal and Familia or something.

[Super]

I think Wheeler has some value but seems like an unlikely target for the Braves.

Maybe there is a deal that moves prospects for Wheeler, Asdrubal and Familia or something.

in a vacuum i have no problem getting him.
i'm just not sure what sense it makes given our current issues.

[Enscheff]

Freeman has reverse splits.

Career FIP against lefties 4.39

Career FIP against righties 3.59

Are you trying to say a situational LHer needs to be good at getting LHed hitters out?

Grumble grumble...stupid algorithms...derrrrp...spreadsheets...games aren't played on paper....I heard on XM radio...derrrrp!!!

[clvclv]

How about Odalvi Javier. Can I add him to the list or is he a keeper.

Don't know much about Javier, but can't imagine he's that interesting since no one else seems to have heard much about him either. I recall a little talk about his upside when he was signed, but have heard little since personally.

The main point was that I just don't see including guys like Encarnacion, Ynoa, and De La Cruz in deals for marginal upgrades to the MLB roster (just because they currently don't figure prominently into our Top 30) as a great move. I've always been in favor of serious upgrades to help win now, but just don't think guys like Cabrera and Solarte help much in that regard. Would they be upgrades over Camargo and Culberson? Possibly slight upgrades. Do they make this team significantly better? Not likely. Those three have shown enough flashes that they're probably worth holding onto for a little while longer.

The same goes for the pen. I didn't bother to look up Freeman's splits, but does that really make a difference? Does adding a situational lefty make this team 2-3 wins better when you KNOW Snitker's going to ride the horses (Viz, Minter, and Winkler) into the ground come late August and September if those games actually mean something? Probably not any more than putting Gohara/Fried/Allard in the pen and making him use them in that role. He's running Biddle and Freeman out there in that role now without consulting the numbers.

[nsacpi]

Snit is using Freeman and Biddle as situational lefties because we dont have one. It won't cost my much to acquire one.

On a side note I didn't realize Encarnacion was so highly regarded by so many.

[Managuarantano's Volunteers]

Snit is using Freeman and Biddle as situational lefties because we dont have one. It won't cost my much to acquire one.

On a side note I didn't realize Encarnacion was so highly regarded by so many.

I think TalkingChop loves him, for whatever that’s worth

[Enscheff]

That would turn Freeman into a strictly situational lefty.

I didn't bother to look up Freeman's splits

So dumb...

[Southcack77]

I think TalkingChop loves him, for whatever that’s worth

I take those guys with a grain of salt, though it does seem like they lately tend to pimp the right guys at least.

Anyway, I've seen enough non-Braves affiliated praise on JCE to make me thing he's someone to watch. For the record, I haven't seen anything this year that doubts his ability to play 3B. He's currently hitting .290+ with an 150+ ISO at 20 in A ball.

He's a long way away but there is not one chance in hell I would deal him for a situational reliever.

[Carp]

why would we want him tho? he's not any more of a sure thing than some of our current young guys. and he likely won't come cheaply enough to make it worth it.

Just spit balling really. I mean I do like Wheeler a good bit and he comes with relatively cheap control. Seems like a really good buy low candidate for someone. I like him more than a lot of the options available. But the prospect is likely prohibitive considering the Mets likely would require more from an inter-division opponent.

[clvclv]

Snit is using Freeman and Biddle as situational lefties because we dont have one. It won't cost my much to acquire one.

On a side note I didn't realize Encarnacion was so highly regarded by so many.

Are we really sure he won't continue to though - even if you go get him someone much better-suited for the role? It's nice to hear him give at least some weight to the newer analytics he's been provided, but can we be positive an old-school guy isn't going to follow his gut when it tells him a lefty on lefty matchup gives him the edge no matter what the numbers say? I don't know the answer to that (and no one else likely does either), but we always have to keep in mind the fact that he's ultimately a Bobby disciple.

He's continued to keep giving a "hot" Culberson ABs against righties (yesterday for example) when the matchup provided him a great chance to at least get a handful of ABs for a guy who hasn't seen any in Flaherty. We're all but playing two guys short on the bench since the ONLY times he uses Flaherty is when the other PH options have been used up. Before the shots start coming, this isn't a plea to use a borderline major leaguer like Flaherty more often as much as it's just to point out that he missed a golden opportunity to get him some action against a Pitcher he had at least a chance to handle yesterday - it's not like Gant has overwhelming stuff that our guys couldn't have told him anything about. Neither Freeman nor Markakis has had a day off in forever - surely there's been a couple of guys that Flaherty, Santana, or Culberson matched up well enough with in the last two months to get them one or two.

He's handled the pen better than most expected so far, but he's not done very well when it comes to getting the everyday guys a blow when he has a chance. He kept running Ozzie out there every day when he could have used a day off to clear his head. Offensively he's been setting lineups like every day has been an August/September game, and it's liable to bite him as the real Dog Days near.

Like I said, I'm all for getting a situational lefty as long as the cost doesn't exceed a Wisler/Sims/Rio - I'm just not so sure I quite trust Snit enough to use one correctly if you get one. I'm afraid getting a RHP with reverse splits that's really good would make his head spin no matter how many times you showed him the data.

[nsacpi]

Are we really sure he won't continue to though - even if you go get him someone much better-suited for the role?

Why would you have doubts about something so basic. Snit had a couple situational lefties on the team last year. They weren't very good, but he used them appropriately.

[Freshmaker]

Wheeler would be a good add IMO, depending on cost of course. He's been on a great run, and I have doubts on the serviceability of Sanchez and McCarthy the rest of the year. Plus who knows how well Soroka will pitch if/when he returns this year.

[clvclv]

Why would you have doubts about something so basic. Snit had a couple situational lefties on the team last year. They weren't very good, but he used them appropriately.

You numbers-folks have been screaming about the old-school crowd for awhile now. Are you announcing you suddenly trust Snitker because he correctly used a situational lefty when they won 72 games in 2017?

That's great if you do. Wish I did. Just don't question his moves if that's the case.

Either you trust him or you don't - the guys in the pen and on the bench have no choice.

[NYCBrave]

The Cole Hamels watch continues. He only lasted 2/3 of an inning today and was pulled after giving up 7 runs vs lowly Detroit.