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Thread: 2018 Offseason And Targets

  1. #5841
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hulavol View Post
    Lot of chatter this am on MLB XM about the Braves and Giants discussing MadBum..... would take one of wright/gohara/soroka/touki + ...
    XM radio...enough said

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hulavol View Post
    Lot of chatter this am on MLB XM about the Braves and Giants discussing MadBum..... would take one of wright/gohara/soroka/touki + ...
    For my offseason chop country reading entertainment, trading for MB and signing markakis would be great

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    Very Flirtatious, but Doubts What Love Is. jpx7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hulavol View Post
    Lot of chatter this am on MLB XM about the Braves and Giants discussing MadBum..... would take one of wright/gohara/soroka/touki + ...
    Absolutely horrible idea at that price-level.
    "For all his tattooings he was on the whole a clean, comely looking cannibal."

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    Quote Originally Posted by jpx7 View Post
    Absolutely horrible idea at that price-level.
    Yeah, I agree. One season...let me repeat...one season, and itís not a given he would even be his old self. Thatís a huge gamble of resources for a guy with injuries in decline.

    Iíd take him on the cheap all day...thatís the only way though.

    Send them Julio and Allard (maybe another filler). Thatís as far as I would go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hulavol View Post
    Lot of chatter this am on MLB XM about the Braves and Giants discussing MadBum..... would take one of wright/gohara/soroka/touki + ...
    FWIW, several of those guys continue to try to link us to Kimbrel - Steve Phillips in particular.
    Waters is intersting too. Would prefer a guy that projects to more power though. (2017 Draft Thread)

    If they don't make additions they can expect the same 3-5 win improvement they saw last year. That makes the Braves a 75-78 win team. (What's the best we could hope for in 2018?)


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    Quote Originally Posted by jpx7 View Post
    Absolutely horrible idea at that price-level.
    I wouldn't disagree, but everyone that has talked-down potential Bumgarner trades has to take a bit of a step back and realize the situation on their end. We're talking about a guy who's a bigger part of Giants' history than Chipper is of Braves' history. Their ask from Milwaukee is one of Burnes, Woodruff, or Peralta plus, so it's not like they're aiming higher just because it's our system.

    I understand the hesitation (and don't think I'd give up one of those guys either without assurances an extension would be an easy negotiation), but ask yourself what it would've taken to get the Braves to trade Chipper in the last year of his deal. I can't imagine what kind of grief the front office would have gotten from the fans if they'd have traded him for a couple second-tier prospects - how quickly folks forget how badly the Murphy trade worked out from a PR standpoint as well as return standpoint is pretty funny at times.
    Last edited by clvclv; 01-09-2019 at 09:51 AM.
    Waters is intersting too. Would prefer a guy that projects to more power though. (2017 Draft Thread)

    If they don't make additions they can expect the same 3-5 win improvement they saw last year. That makes the Braves a 75-78 win team. (What's the best we could hope for in 2018?)


    The Blackjack Dealer

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    Very Flirtatious, but Doubts What Love Is. jpx7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clvclv View Post
    I wouldn't disagree, but everyone that has talked-down potential Bumgarner trades has to take a bit of a step back and realize the situation on their end. We're talking about a guy who's a bigger part of Giants' history than Chipper is of Braves' history. Their ask from Milwaukee is one of Burnes, Woodruff, or Peralta plus, so it's not like they're aiming higher just because it's our system.

    I understand the hesitation (and don't think I'd give up one of those guys either without assurances an extension would be an easy negotiation), but ask yourself what it would've taken to get the Braves to trade Chipper in the last year of his deal. I can't imagine what kind of grief the front office would have gotten from the fans if they'd have traded him for a couple second-tier prospects - how quickly folks forget how badly the Murphy trade worked out from a PR standpoint as well as return standpoint is pretty funny at times.
    No step back needed—it’s a terrible idea for exactly the reason that the Giants overvalue an active legend. Not saying I don’t understand that overvaluing, just that the Braves shouldn’t share in it. And an extension just makes matters worse.
    "For all his tattooings he was on the whole a clean, comely looking cannibal."

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    Quote Originally Posted by clvclv View Post
    I wouldn't disagree, but everyone that has talked-down potential Bumgarner trades has to take a bit of a step back and realize the situation on their end. We're talking about a guy who's a bigger part of Giants' history than Chipper is of Braves' history. Their ask from Milwaukee is one of Burnes, Woodruff, or Peralta plus, so it's not like they're aiming higher just because it's our system.

    I understand the hesitation (and don't think I'd give up one of those guys either without assurances an extension would be an easy negotiation), but ask yourself what it would've taken to get the Braves to trade Chipper in the last year of his deal. I can't imagine what kind of grief the front office would have gotten from the fans if they'd have traded him for a couple second-tier prospects - how quickly folks forget how badly the Murphy trade worked out from a PR standpoint as well as return standpoint is pretty funny at times.
    Their situation can be whatever the heck they want it to be... we still don't have to pay the price. At this point, Sonny Gray is likely a better pitcher.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hulavol View Post
    Lot of chatter this am on MLB XM about the Braves and Giants discussing MadBum..... would take one of wright/gohara/soroka/touki + ...
    I used to think this may be an option since Zaidi and AA are close from their time together in LA. They're the ones who worked out the trade last year. However, I think the Giants will hold on to him until July. It's hard as a new GM to come in and trade a legend for a vanilla package, which is all AA should be offering.

    I wouldn't mind seeing those 2 work out a deal for Will Smith though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hulavol View Post
    Lot of chatter this am on MLB XM about the Braves and Giants discussing MadBum..... would take one of wright/gohara/soroka/touki + ...
    I have interest in MadBum, but the absolute most a I'd be willing to give up is one from the group of Allard, Wentz, Muller and some filler. Only way I'd do the proposed package is if they included Will Smith in the deal (not the Fresh Prince).
    Last edited by Carp; 01-09-2019 at 01:34 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by clvclv View Post
    I wouldn't disagree, but everyone that has talked-down potential Bumgarner trades has to take a bit of a step back and realize the situation on their end. We're talking about a guy who's a bigger part of Giants' history than Chipper is of Braves' history. Their ask from Milwaukee is one of Burnes, Woodruff, or Peralta plus, so it's not like they're aiming higher just because it's our system.

    I understand the hesitation (and don't think I'd give up one of those guys either without assurances an extension would be an easy negotiation), but ask yourself what it would've taken to get the Braves to trade Chipper in the last year of his deal. I can't imagine what kind of grief the front office would have gotten from the fans if they'd have traded him for a couple second-tier prospects - how quickly folks forget how badly the Murphy trade worked out from a PR standpoint as well as return standpoint is pretty funny at times.
    Those guys from Milwaukee aren't that great. You're talking about at best, Fried/Wilson level prospects, only the Milwaukee guys are older.

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    indians got one of my long-time targets, kevin plawecki, for peanuts. i think he still has a chance to be a good player.
    "You show your bias against me with your consistently negative reaction to my brazen lies."

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    this from Kiley Mcdaniel today :/

    Logan
    12:34 Seems like Ian Anderson’s spin rates are super low on the board. Is a 91-94 FB with a spin rate of 2175 RPM really above average? Or a curveball at 1700 RPM? I know the write up acknowledged he wasn’t a spin rate maven, but wow those are low.
    Kiley McDaniel
    12:34 Yes, they are. His feel for pitching will be key going forward

  20. #5854
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    Quote Originally Posted by clvclv View Post
    I wouldn't disagree, but everyone that has talked-down potential Bumgarner trades has to take a bit of a step back and realize the situation on their end. We're talking about a guy who's a bigger part of Giants' history than Chipper is of Braves' history. Their ask from Milwaukee is one of Burnes, Woodruff, or Peralta plus, so it's not like they're aiming higher just because it's our system.

    I understand the hesitation (and don't think I'd give up one of those guys either without assurances an extension would be an easy negotiation), but ask yourself what it would've taken to get the Braves to trade Chipper in the last year of his deal. I can't imagine what kind of grief the front office would have gotten from the fans if they'd have traded him for a couple second-tier prospects - how quickly folks forget how badly the Murphy trade worked out from a PR standpoint as well as return standpoint is pretty funny at times.

    Your response doesn't really address the issue.

    the Giants certainly might have a difficult time trading Bumgarner without a big return, but why does that suggest the Braves should pay it?

    A reasonable Bumgarner deal is for a much more minor prospect than Soroka, Gohara, Touki, Wright. Unless the Giants are going to address some other hole of the Braves somehow none of those guys should be on the table for one year of control of Bumgarner.

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    I heard some of the Bumgarner chatter to and it makes sense. He’s from the area and is a Braves fan so he could turn things around here. I’d offer say Bryse Wilson and one other smaller prospect and see if they bite but nobody like the names mentioned above. If we could get Bumgarner for Wilson and then trade Newk for Peralta we would still have plenty of ammo for JTR. That would be an amazing offseason.

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    Also saw where Boston isnít gonna spend much for a closer so Kimbrel going back there isnít likely. How low would his price have to go for AA to be interested?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Southcack77 View Post
    Your response doesn't really address the issue.

    the Giants certainly might have a difficult time trading Bumgarner without a big return, but why does that suggest the Braves should pay it?

    A reasonable Bumgarner deal is for a much more minor prospect than Soroka, Gohara, Touki, Wright. Unless the Giants are going to address some other hole of the Braves somehow none of those guys should be on the table for one year of control of Bumgarner.
    I didn't suggest they should - as a matter of fact I said I wouldn't disagree that price was too high.

    I only pointed out that everyone needs to take a step back when complaining about the asking price since I'm relatively sure the vast majority of posters here would've screamed bloody murder if the same situation would've come up at the end of Chipper's tenure.

    I'm not sure whether I buy the notion that Gray is a better Pitcher at this point, but people have suggested using Gohara in a deal to get him. Given Gray's monstrous struggles on the big stage in NY vs. Bumgarner's career postseason pedigree, I'd call them a wash at best. If you'd move Gohara for Gray, then why not MadBum? I realize the numbers folks don't like talking about his playoff success when valuing him, but it is a consideration if you're making a push - there still wasn't anyone you wanted Bobby to run out there in games that counted other than Smoltzie, even as he began to slow down.
    Last edited by clvclv; 01-09-2019 at 03:38 PM.
    Waters is intersting too. Would prefer a guy that projects to more power though. (2017 Draft Thread)

    If they don't make additions they can expect the same 3-5 win improvement they saw last year. That makes the Braves a 75-78 win team. (What's the best we could hope for in 2018?)


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    Quote Originally Posted by Hudson2 View Post
    Also saw where Boston isn’t gonna spend much for a closer so Kimbrel going back there isn’t likely. How low would his price have to go for AA to be interested?
    I have a feeling that the Red Sox are posturing....but if not, he ends up with either Philly or Atlanta IMO.

    I heard where he could do a 1 year deal and hit the market again next season, but honestly, I don't think he will have to. Someone will give him a multi year deal at at least $15m+
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    Iíd rather have Gray than Bumgarner. At least Gray can reasonably be expected to pitch 150+ innings.

    The data on Anderson is shared by all MLB teams, so unless some team is absolutely clueless (Marlins), they all know about those limitations. Iím not sure exactly how spin rate translates to movement for Anderson in particular, but we know the Dodgers value guys with high spins rates and work to translate that into usable movement.

    Itís probably safe to assume the Braves are trying to push Riley, Newk and Anderson in these major trades, and they just need to find a team dumb enough to not use the same data. Itís also possible the Braves value Newk more highly than Fried and Anderson because of his superior statcast measurables.

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    its crazy to me how teams like the Dbacks (Peralta) Mariners (Haniger) are holding on to them when they should be rebuilding.

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